5 September 2010
08:5668830So - I wonder out loud why the grubby little drug dealer who had her collar felt last time was 2+ years in the street dealing in the open, with plenty of specific and clear info passed direct to the police in that time by numerous people with info as specific as car registrations, and even names and addresses was nabbed only after 2 years blighting our landscape and putting our kids at risk and then back on her own beat within weeks. It didn't take PCSOs to come up with the intell, and it still wasn't dealt with, and when it was, was screwed up.
Perhaps more training/support/better focus/less reliance on PCSOs?
5 September 2010
09:0068831OK - one last time, as you say. To take your points one at a time:
1 - Kent police and this and the previoius govt have said said PCSO's are here to stay
and even if they went(which neither believes will happen)they WILL NOT be replaced with police. Kent police and the government have said lots of things that were not true or changed with a change of politics and economics.
2 - On the question of the town centre bobby, I see him every time i go into town, and yes i see him doing eactly what ROGER feels he should be doing, of course hes not there 24/7 or at the exact time ROGER is. So maybe there should be more of him/them?
3 - Just to repeat the neighbourhood units in both Dover and fOLKESTONE are made up of PCSO's and PC's both of whom walk the beat, and/or use cars - so what is the difference and why can't we channel the funds into more PCs isttead?
4 - All i can tell you is thsat in the 16 or so wards in Folkestone the neighbourhood unit is highly appreciated. I KNOW!! That is what we have said - it doesn't stop us challenging it.
5 - I keep trying to explain why PCSO 's should NOT have the powers of a police person.
If they did, firstly they would be doing policing on the cheap,
secondly the info PCSO's obtained would be lost, with the trust of all the community. - That is the point - PCs could and should be doning the same job but with the powers that would underpin what they do.
6 - PCSO's are not police, but since there formation the police themselves have recognised its the PCSO's that gather the information, know who's operating in the community, know whats going on in the wards, know the contacts, plus so much more. Ditto the above - beat bobbys always used to do this and were part ofthe community.
7 - So I do rfealise no one is trying to put down the PCSO's but with the themes coming out of posts is the want to give them police powers which would be a disaster. DISAGREE. For all the abiove reasons.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
5 September 2010
10:03688395 September 2010
10:0768840Thanks Ray - that makes it clearer, very helpful.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
5 September 2010
15:1068861Have they combined PCSOs with the Traffic Wardens to make one body in this area?
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 September 2010
15:4768864I finanly give up
I tried to inform
never mind
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 September 2010
15:5168867excellent stuff ray, sounds to me that they have enough powers there to deal with the situations that bother us the most.
added to the fact that they are the ones that encounter the offences listed, enough ammunition there to support the continuance of their role.
5 September 2010
17:4368877We will have to agree to disagree. Keith - you have informed, and done it well. Disagreement does not imply anything other than independent thought.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
5 September 2010
18:1868883Was your comment aimed at me Keith?
I know that in some areas they have combined and I see many more traffic wardens wandering around than PCSOs that is why I asked.
I wonder how the criminal fraterity feel about PCSOs. Do they fear them or ignore them.
I know I would prefer to see a proper policeman once a week than a PCSO a couple of times a week. I am not against them at all, anything is better than nothing.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 September 2010
18:3268887jan
check out the link in post 63 all will be revealed.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
5 September 2010
18:3968890Jan,
Parking offences are now enforced by DDC, nothing to do with the police, and we no longer have traffic wardens we have Civil Enforcement Officers - now to me civil and enforcement aren't words that normally go together!
http://www.dover.gov.uk/parking/documents__policies/traffic_management_act.aspxJan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
5 September 2010
18:4168892Yes Howard, I skimmed through it and yes the they can nab a lot of minor offenders. Nowhere did I see that they had combined with traffic wardens who I see more often.
Maybe I am just a thick old lady who is set in her ways with regards to the police.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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5 September 2010
18:4468894That's a good link and agreed, the PCSO's have a wide range of revenue raising powers there.
I notice the power to detain isn't included, unless designated by a senior ranking copper. For me, the lack of power to arrest without requiring a chauffer driven copper to give the nod is the key.
Enforcement of all those lovely powers is, truth be told, pretty toothless otherwise.
One further question. Are PCSO's incentivesed (like Parking Wardens) to rack up a number of fines or a reach a specific fiscal target?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 September 2010
18:4468895ray
according to your earlier link most of the duties covered by the "civil enforcement coves" can also be carried about by the p.c.so.'s.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
5 September 2010
18:5568896BERN;
Yes, we will have to disagree
I hoped that everyone would make informed decisions.
I could have gone on and on
but looks like not to many listerning
so i will call it a day on this one
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
5 September 2010
19:0668901With resepct Keith, the one not listening is you.
We have been to the website provided and know what a PCSO is able to do, so we are informed. Having informed ourselves we conclude that our opinion does not require changing.
Your opinion is valid too.
However, as we keep stating, there is nothing a PCSO does or can do, that a proper police constable, on foot doing a beat, cannot do too. In fact, the copper can make an arrest of his/her own volition, a PCSO cannot.
So, the conclusion that PCSO's are policing on the cheap is valid and supported by the site we were referred to, to inform ourselves.
This does NOT mean we don't appreciate the terrific job PCSO's do.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
5 September 2010
19:2368906kieth,head,banging,against,wall spring to mind.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 September 2010
19:2368907all this talk of "bobbies on the beat" is just wishful thinking, i think that keith was trying to put this across.
the modern police recruit would not be interested.
the top brass have no interest either.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
5 September 2010
19:4268913Can I just say a few things in support of Keith. I have had many chats with him about his work and what he does is not only a great help to the regular police force, it also helps a lot of people, specially youngsters, who find a pcso more aproachable (and maybe less scary)than a police officer. I know on Keiths patch he has befriended and given advice to many kids who might have been prevented from crime after speaking to him. He also did some great work with the Ghurka families who have a lot of respect for him. And he visited schools giving advice too. I can understand his frustration at some of the comments on this thread. I have an open mind on the subject but I personally think that there is room for both in the current climate. Elderly folk must find it a comfort knowing they have a regular person walking the streets for them and keeping an eye out for anything untoward. As long as we're being protected I'm happy.
Good work Keith, you have a lot to be proud of!
I'm not saying any of the previous comments are wrong and I do understand your views - just feel a bit sorry for Keith.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
5 September 2010
19:4568915What happens when a PCSO is wandering round and sees a burglar coming from a house with his bag of 'swag'?
If I have understood correctly very little, can he arrest him or does he make a citizens arrest or stand there and phone for a proper policeman and hope the burglar doesn't escape.
I think most of us realise the "bobbies on the beat" have gone to be replaced by "two bobbies in a car".
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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