Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
They can't worm out this time, Howard. The law now says: any major changes to EU policy must mean a referendum in the UK.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Alexlander - no that is not correct. Any treaties or new laws that would result in powers transferring from the UK to the EU would result in a referendum. the Conservative manifesto was quite clear on that. Changes to the EU that do not involve a transfer of power do not need to be subject to a referendum. Basically the Eurozone can do what it wants as long as we do not get drawn into it.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Conservative Manifesto also stated Immigration would be cut by ``ten of thousands``......that one also had not been
thought through............more ill-concieved policies.The errors of judgement are increasing by the day.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
the end is nigh,for britain that is.left out in the cold,snubed by france and germany.grim it is with a capital g.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Barry, your last phrase ending with: "as long as we do not get drawn into it" is essential.
IF Dave flings tens of billions of pounds at this new EU project, then we would be involved.
Whatever Dave decides with regards to this new treaty and which involves us in something new, such as ripping us off, or any form of binding slavery of binding anything, cannot be accepted without a referendum.
If your words hold true, then Dave MUST agree to not giving 1 penny of our money away to the latest euro crisis and must not bind us in anything NEW by even one iota.
Whatever he does from this Friday at the crisis meeting in Europe will be under close scrutiny from the public.
I hope he knows how to control his pen before he starts scribbling his signature under a piece of "binding-paper" or under a cheque-book UK plc.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Cameron is in a no win situation.
Merkle is still heading for the`Robin Hood`tax and is unlikely to move on the requirements set out by the one hundred
eurosceptics with Boris and new boy on the block Owen Paterson champing at the bit and moving into the wings ready!!!
If he gives in to the 100 the Lib/Dems will depart and the Coalition breaks up.
Could be a career changing week?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
It is difficult - but remember it is not in the interests of the LDs to have an election and if the subject that causes it is DC fighting Britain's corner in the EU then they will get completely slaughtered.
Might be a good thing, an overall Conservative majority is just what we need to deal properly with the EU, get rid of the HRA and deal properly with that deficit.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
there will not be an election if the coalition falls, even if there was it is very doubtful that the blues would get a majority.
i suspect that most yellow voters would go to the reds but that would be offset by many who would refuse to vote for them as they still believe that gordon brown caused the present difficulties.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Actually Howard I disagree. A minority government could not survive long given the difficult choices we face. The lack of Milliminor's credibility, the lack of any kind of credible Labour economic policy, the remembrance of Labour digging us into this mess, will all lead to an overall Conservative majority.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Barry, this is ridiculous! What do you mean the Tories would get an outright majority at a general election?
The Conservative leaders in the Cabinet have just shot in their own nest, having the other day promised us 13 years of hardships.
With that promise, they wouldn't get anywhere near the seats they presently have.
Furthermore they got in last time through sheer lies, they lied on just about everything.
Every time over the past 8 months that they have come up with a promise to create more employment in Britain for the local unemployed, I believed it.
Every time it proved to be just gas let out of the bottle.
I don't believe 'em anymore! Can't fool me after so much blatant farce theatre.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
alex,a snowballs chance in hell i do beliuve.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I actually think the British people are more intelligent than you suggest Alexander.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Well....phew!
One is trying to digest all the EU news this morning and there is a lot of it. Boris Johnson says David Cameron "played a blinder!" in Brussels.
But did he?
What are we left with? It was clearly a victory for the 81 eurosceptic MP's in his party but I doubt if it was a victory for the nation as a whole. Far from the Eurozone being finished as is often spouted, it has consolidated itself and will proceed in a more integrated way. There are 17 Eurozone countries, 6 others are aligning themselves with the new deal and will.. the experts say.. join the Euro in time. There will be 23 Euro countries then at the core of the new Europe. The only country taking the same stance as the UK is Hungary.
There will now be a two tier EU. The outer limits occupied by UK and Hungary..(Sweden and the Czrech Republic have yet to decide which way to jump) so its going to be cold and lonely out there with few friends.
There is much more to this and it is emerging all the time....but it most definitely is a pivotal moment. Being on the outside like a kind of Switzerland, influencing nothing, having little input on future direction is the role David Cameron has won for us. His 81 MP's will slap him on the back on monday, rather than savage him in rottweiler fashion as had been on the cards. He wont be savaged now, but did he do the right thing for the nations jobs?..or was he saving his own Conservative party from disintegration...and where are the Libdems now??
If the Eurozone hits its global stride in the years ahead, as is predicted by some, we wont be part of that big world stage.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
what i don't understand is how this new treaty works, it seems to have been rushed through.
definitely a blurring of lines between the currency and the union, seems to me that france and germany are pushing this deliberately to force dave into a corner
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The EU is on the fast track to no-where.
I am still absorbing the implication and will blog about it tomorrow. It looks as if more sticking plaster is being placed over the Euro and the fundamental problems are not being addressed.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
all thanks to dozy dave and eurosceptics,they [dave and co] have signed a death warrent on the eu and ourselves.
now with a bleak outlook all over euroupe and the uk,the end to the uk is nigh.just you wait and see.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 53............Spot on assessment.
Cameron and Cliggy are both in a no win situation.
Lib/ Dems have two choices.Stick with Tories and implode or break away from Coalition.Either way they are
permanently damaged and so is Coalition.
Europe issue has claimed two Premiers..............Cameron will be the third in short /medium terms.
Eurosceptics may have their way but what future for Britain? relatively we do not have a manufacturing
base...................not looking good.
City of London financial position was always vulnerable....................now it is even worse.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Just in from Reg...
once again by Dave Brown of The Independent
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"We are on our own again.............but this time there will be no yanks!!!!!!"
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
So he didn't sign away a cheque then! Nor any binding agreement that would have seen us handing over billions a year more to the EU.
First test of sanity: positive.
It's going to be exciting watching how events unfold.
But there are more than 81 eurosceptic Tory MPs, Paul. Many of them didn't vote for a referendum because of the 3 line whip. Don't forget that Charlie MP is also a declared eurosceptic.
And not to forget that the majority of the public want out of the EU. So this was one battle won in favour of democracy and national sovereignty.
If Dave had sacrificed the democratic will of the People and national sovereignty, it would have been a very, very dark day.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
A survey shows that 86% of Conservative MPs are Eurosceptic - this total will increase further at the next parliament. Developments are pushing us towards exit - it may happen sooner than I thought....
