howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
they jest.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
zey haf vays of making sure ve comply brian.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
time to get my old clank out and give a dust down.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
No one lines please,we have been told about it by the boss,I will report you to him.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
This is as I predicted: the 25 European EU states don't want Britain upsetting the apple-cart with changes to treaties and repatriations of powers.
They would rather we just left the European Union and traded with them as between to sovereign states: Britain and the EU.
Mrs Merkel is obviously giving us a helping hand here, by being diplomatic, and wants us to understand it,
Will Dave realise this, or will he just keep on flinging our money at the failed euro?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
not sure you are right alex, the german finance minister made it clear today that we had no choice but to join the currency.
he went on to say that us brits just had to get used to the idea.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
That's what I mean, Howard: the conditions laid down by the German ministers here are so unacceptable for us - and of-course they know this - that we have no option other than to leave the EU.
The Germans know full well that Dave's majority in Parliament would collapse if he did what the German government is asking, so they are actually offering him victory in a golden plate.
The idea is: Dave becomes the champion of British independence, and with massive popular support pulls Britain OUT of the EU.
Of-course Dave is acclaimed hero by the throngs of British cheerers, and remains Prime Minister.
IN RETURN, Dave and the Government leaves the EU Political Union to Germany and France to govern, and stops telling everyone to fling their money at the euro and to do this, that and the other, and lets the German and French governments sort out the dilema of Europe.
We become a proud Island Nation, and Germnay and France keep most of Europe as hegemony leaders.
This is a fantastic deal. But, Will dave understand this???
Or will he just go on... and on....trying to "sort out" Europe's problems with our money, while cutting everytjhing he can cut in Britain except the fat cats' salaries and bonuses, until we all bitterly despair?
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Merkle has all the cards............she has manufacturing..........Finance is in a mess.
You see they have not fired a shot and we are running scared they are holding all of Europe in there hands Jack Boot Jenny on her high horse lets send in the 101.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
No Alan. Let them. It's not all of Europe: Switzerland is a free country, and Norway too.
We should keep to our Island Nation, and let Berlin and Paris dedicate their attention to most of Europe.
For once, let's NOT get involved in another dispute with France and Germany over Europe! Can't you see, they are holding out a fair gentlemans offer: Britain to the British, Europe to Berlin and Paris.
Please no war now! We must agree!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
When we leave the EU, Ireland will do the same. Then it will be the British Isles of Four Nations!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I'm sure the majority of those peoples will want to leave too; it's only the politicians who want federalism.
We all want to trade with each other, just not be tied to their rules and currency.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
roger,nothing wrong with federalism or the euro,as long as you understand the princaple of it,and then it's down to goverment to make it work our way.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Brian the only government which can make federalism work is a federal government. But it will only work with the consent of the people otherwise it will be a dictatorship. As the 27 Euro-commissioners who effectively form the federal government-in-waiting are unelected, they do not have a popular mandate therefore a federal government of that structure will be unacceptable to the majority of people. No other structure has been proposed.
As for the euro, there is too much divergence between the economic structures of its member countries for it to succeed long term, even with a federal union. Without such a union, no hope even in the short term.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
No Roger! The peoples of Europe do not wish to leave the EU, they have desired to enter the European Union, and they wish to remain a part.
There is no movement in Europe for leaving the EU.
This is why we must be realistic, and once out, strive for good relations with Europe, and not to antagonise the European EU community, otherwise they will consider us as their enemies, or at least as their adversaries.
I am convinced that the messages coming over from Brlin and Paris to Dave are to let him know that his ideas of Germany and France flinging their last euro at Italy are not part of their strategy, as it would lead to the total economic ruin of Germany and France.
Their idea is a strong fiscal and political union of the European EU under the guidance of Germany and France, who have invested masses of money in the majority of EU countries. They want to prevent war breaking out again in Europe, and have their own ideals of pan-European unity.
As I have stated previously, it is quite obvious that Germany wants us to leave the EU at this point, they have realised that we are an Island Nation with our own ideals of democracy and independence.
But it must come about in a friendly fashion, not by trying to make the whole EU fail and promoting discord in Europe.
They want us to trade with them as a friendly nation once we leave, and to respect their internal affairs, as they will do to us reciprocally.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
There seems to be an assumption in some quarters that if a country's government or banking sector goes bust, the whole country must be bust. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Peter, Italy is bust, a lost cause without Germany and France. Italy's government has proven to be completely incompetent.
However, Italy should not be left to a revolution, and so it is better that a strong fiscal and political union under the guidance of Germany and France prevail in that country.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
very few of the people in the union or in the eurozone have ever been asked whether they wanted to join anything.
whenever there is a referendum to do with enlarging the powers of the e.u. the vote is no so they stop having them.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
In theory you are right, Howard, but if you look closer, you'll find that in reality, the Europeans in EU countries do accept the EU. They have the EU flag in front of all public officies next to their own flag, and they do not ask to leave the EU.
Many eastern European countries depend so much on economic relations with the western European countries, that if they left, they'd fall into total economic ruin.
It's only us islanders, Howard, that are different.
If the EU fell apart, I fear there could be revolutions and war in Europe. A sensible approach to the euro crisis is not that proposed by Dave and Osborne, which is just a reckless idea of sending Germany and France into bankruptcy, but that proposed by the French and Germans.
If we were to start throwing the bait in about "getting powers back", the whole of Europe would fall to chaos, to never-ending bickering. But they don't want to, Howard.
Once we leave, the problem is solved, and we will trade with Europe and have very good relations with them.
We are the ones rocking the boat, Howard. We have to leave!