Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,983
Agree Keith .Shameless behaviour.If one gets away with breaking rules that sets a precedence for all .Principle is the key word.That CE showed no emotion at all .
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,577
They are calling for him to resign now
Admitting it's ok to pay way below the UK mininum Wage is awful
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,232
I think the CEO's brazen admittance that they weighed up the pros and cons and decided braking the law was the best option has left Government with nowhere to go now. They've got to stop this, regardless of which legal/regulatory vehicle they use. Could get very interesting.
As an aside, how long can P&O have ships tied up not going anywhere? Alleged to be losing a a million a day, that's already seven million lost....
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
Following the disgraceful way the company behaved, I believe the UK ferry side will collapse in the not too distant future.
The public saying they will not use them, the money they have to pay to the unlawfully sacked, the millions they loose by being unable to sail, plus any fine that just might be imposed they will be in even more financial trouble than before.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
The danger is that we are being gas lighted (gaslit?).
Mr Hebblethwaite prompted further anger when he told the transport committee P&O "did choose not to consult" on the move and "did not believe there was any other way to do this".
P&O's owner DP World had warned Mr Shapps that Irish Ferries was a new "low-cost competitor" that would pose a challenge to the business, minutes from a meeting in November revealed.
Mr Shapps had replied to DP World boss DP Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem: "I'm aware of the issues relating to P&O. I recognise you will need to make commercial decisions, but please do keep us informed."
But the transport secretary told BBC Breakfast the first he knew of the P&O sackings was when he was "stood at the despatch box" in the Commons last Thursday delivering a statement on another issue.
Takes after his boss.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,495
'Following the disgraceful way the company behaved, I believe the UK ferry side will collapse in the not too distant future.'
15% of UK imports and exports by P&O. Get real.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,907
(Not my real name.)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,577
I'm sure P and O
Factored in all these costs .
.but I still think this is a PR disaster , which im not sure P and O were ready for .
We can only see if sales on P and O hold up
As that's the only way they will listen .
It appears the chief exec is ready for a long term problem , but how long can they sustain that ?
They probably didn't think the Govt would do anything
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,983
I see the Chief Executive Of DHB has put out a press release .Mainly to state they have jobs on offer with retraining etc.DDC another press release showing support.The petition is nearly 6000 now .
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,577
Whilst we should applaud those offering jobs
..
It doesn't move away from the fact that P and O
Need to address the problem
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,907
Given that, to quote Mrs Elphicke, Mr Johnson has announced "that the law will be changed to ensure workers are paid at least the minimum wage" and that consequently P&O's "mass sackings are not only bad business behaviour – they are self-defeating", I'd hate to be the civil servant tasked with drafting the legislation. Presumably the (UK) minimum wage will apply to all maritime(?) routes of a certain type and/or from certain foreign ports that enter the UK, rather than simply to operators registered here, or vessels flagged here.
It'll be interesting to see how P&O responds, given their "if we don't halve the wage bill, we'll go bust" stance. I note that the FT reports that the Canterbury, Norbay and European Highlander are effectively mortgaged to The Merchant Navy Ratings Pension Fund to secure P&O's debt to it of £146m. Employer debts to a (DB) pension fund are not unusual, but making no "voluntary contributions" since 2006
and for the fund's trustees to appeal to The Pension Regulator and the government for help in obtaining the monies, is. See
https://www.professionalpensions.com/news/4046987/mnrpf-calls-government-tpr-intervene-gbp146m-deficit-share. Were P&O to go under, one wouldn't want to see three ships go sailing out.
Matey and Captain Haddock like this
(Not my real name.)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,577
Interesting points Button
We really in 2022 shouldn't be looking at issues like these
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victor matcham- Registered: 5 Oct 2021
- Posts: 869
yES P.0 Chairman should go but we do not want the company to go from Dover or even more jobs will go, over 100 still work shore base +companys that do their running repairs on the ships which if P.O.went they to could go bust, this will damage shop keepers in the Town, so go after their boss but be careful that when Marching picking lines do not wish the company to go.
Button likes this
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,983
The above post has missed the point .Does he think the People Of Dover will be happy to see P@O ships using Dover Port with cheap foreign Labour being used?Double standards.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
At the risk of not getting real
, past trade is not necessarily their future trade.
If P&O go it would provide an opening for another company to take over their trade so possibly no need for any ships or jobs to go.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Natalie's latest guff given some analysis.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,907
Sue Nicholas wrote:The above post has missed the point .Does he think the People Of Dover will be happy to see P@O ships using Dover Port with cheap foreign Labour being used?Double standards.
No. Probably not. Quite possibly.
(Not my real name.)
alexiatrade- Registered: 10 Oct 2018
- Posts: 89
In a Town such as Dover...where most people know each other..In a Town when 35 years, a huge Seamans' Strike took place...against P & O. Such a strike pitted Father against Son and Brother against Brother. The name Scab was prevalent, and people were breaking the strike, going to work on their bellies in Coaches to break the pricket lines....
Also around this time, was the P & O takeover of Townsend Thoresen...Jeffrey Stirling ..Sam McCluskey - Union Leader.... Mighty times and a huge battle.
The Mogul Public House became known as the Striking Seamens' Hub...to cut a long explanation short...I was involved in helping the Strikers to fill out forms, support and so on...These were season seafarers...out of the Merchant Navy, and indeed the Royal Navy....sub-mariners were also involved. They felt the substance of their fight was against the proposals of introducing the week on week off, or two weeks on and two weeks off....as the new ships rotos......
In those days, the shifts were a weeks of nights, then a day on and day off rota.
If the new practices were bought in, it paved the way for anyone living anywhere to work on the ferries. Thus, very cheap foreign labour. It has to be bought to people's attention...the Cruise Ships have been doing this for years and years....with far Eastern labour..etc..
I have seen the holds of Cruise Ships...with five bunks either side of a cabin, holding ten people and more. This has been standard practice for years...Thus the Cruise Companies can keep the prices low etc...
The chickens have come home to roost for the Ferries....People want cheap...and they will take that whatever...Emotions, loyalty, care, regard for others, trust and respect are out of the door...
What is extraordinary, is the fact, that all of these sackings..were surely a result of deep collusion and secrecy within the governance of this town and area.....It would appear, that nobody had a clue regarding these mass sackings. It was a total surprise to the workers....
There must have been a great deal of planning regarding these sackings....you would not be able to have done such a deed without the powers that be knowing....It is indeed, a huge blow, against community and trust...Thank you.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
I have some sympathy with your comments. I too was employed by the industry at the time. The chronology is a bit misleading. Townsend Thoresen acquired P&O Normandy Ferries (as they were then known) in 1984. What we didn't know at the time was that this was just a springboard for Stirling's P&O Group (a significantly larger company) to launch a predatory and irresistable re-acquisition of Townsends. That happened before the Zeebrugge disaster in March 1987.
The strike followed in 1988 after P&O decided that they couldn't continue with the existing business model. What Messrs Briggs and Parsons would make of the current situation is quite beyond me.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,983
Re the last two posts .Yes I recall it well .Neighbour against neighbour .I recall you did not dare carry the wrong kind of carrier bag.Sad times .All the time employers can get away with cheap labour we have turned the clock back years,I recall the hard times my grandparents lived through and to a certain extent.my own parents.
please god common sense will prevail .