Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
That funny, Diana, I just posted on the English Channel, following your latest posting!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Anyway, thanks still, but actually, there was a Saxon settlement on the present Castle area of Eastern Heights, meaning that there was a high Dover community (present Castle area), and a low Dover community (town area) and the secular canons on the Eastern Heights were people who attended to the Church matters, without necessarily having to be monks. As their Church was the oldest, it could not have been aligned to any other church at that time. When king Whitred had Saint Martin le Grand Priory built, arouns the year 700, he transferred the secular canons to this new priory from the Eastern Heights (present day Castle area). Which means the Eastern Heights ecclesiastic preminence IS OLDER than that of St. Martin le Grand in later Market Square.
Further to your reply, former Saint Mary and Saint Martin Priory Newark, founded in 1130, IS OPPOSITE Christchurch Court, in the sense that you cross Folkestone Road to get from one to the other. Dover Colege next to Priory Station corresponds to this old Priory, called, Saint Mary and Saint Martin Newark. You cannot talk me out of this one, Diana, no matter how you try!
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
This is winning as the most confusing, potentially interesting, thread of all time.
Is there a point or expected outcome to it ?
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Thank you so much, Paul, that's nice to read! I am certainly more than happy to be able to give any explanations I can regards to Dover's ecclesial history, with the knowledge that is available in the already published books that authors and researchers have written. So obviously, it would be imppossible for me to lead anyone astray here, as the readers on the Forum could dispute any wrong information. Therefore I believe to have been sincere in giving a (limited) historic account of Dover's churches, but there is no doubt, as Diana points out, that there are many other churches in our town that also could be mentioned.
Well, Paul, the point is, that the Fair Lady, as I call Her, also Britannia (my personal attribute) indicates that Christ is the Leader of the Church, He being Jesus and being in High. And that Jesus would never have closed down a church dedicated to himself, being our Saviour. So the Mother in High, as our Mother, wanted to let us know that we can rebuild his church within Christchurch Court if we want to, but recognising him alone as the Leader of our national Church.
The reference to the Holy Scriptures I made (the Scroll), is to assure you all that the Bible is written for us in English, translated from the original Greek script. So, because it is written and approved, to keep to it's teachings, and also to discuss biblicle topics, would prevent anyone proposing different religious doctrines that are evidently not from the Bible. And it would prevent any other personality from claiming to be "head of the church". Because a family run company is not what Jesus ultimately proposed to us. But a Church with a High spiritual Authority (in Heaven) to which we humans are all subject, out of gratitude. May-be with some thanksgiving too, and a revival of the idea of attending the Sermon, which unfiortunately is systematicly being obliterated from our society.
Okay, I'll jump back in here, even if it just gives others a chance to work out what th heck this thread is all about. It reminds me of my teenage years when certain substances would create pictures int he head that were to become known as pschedlic. Hey ho and all that!
Anyway, Jesus didn't preach in churches, because there weren't any, only synagogues where he came from. His preachings were invariably if not exclusively in the outdoors. The concept of a building dedicated to him is a lmuch later man-made idea. I suspect, if He were here now He's be horrified to see what man has done in His image.
As a firm believer, my church is wherever I am, as it was for Jesus.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Thanks Sid. So as you believe in Jesus, you'll agree no doubt that it is essential for the Sermon within the Church to teach his words in such a way that people love the words the speakers (parsons, priests) say about him!
The term Church, Sid, comes from Greek, possibly, probably, even though somewhat hard to detect, but I would suggest from the work "ecclesia", meaning: assembly. The Hebrew word for synagogue is: beth knesseth, which means: house of assembly. Sid, in this sense, sysnagogue and church, considered as houses of assembly, where people gather to listen to the word of God, have exactly the same meaning! Only, a church assembly teaches, or upholds, the Christian Faith, where-as the synagogue of the Jews teaches the Old Testament but not the New, as the Jews still do not know Jesus. But as we in Kent have been knowing about Jesus for almost one thousand four-hundred years, as our churches can demonstate, it would be nice if we don't lose this Heritage!
"you'll agree no doubt that it is essential for the Sermon within the Church to teach his words in such a way that people love the words the speakers (parsons, priests) say about him!"
As it happens, I don't agree. We each find God in our own way, and what happens next is personal choice. I personally don't need, and never have needed to be preached at by child molesters, propagandists or those who so far removed from reality as to make me shudder at what they think their calling is.
I am my own church, and it is a cross denominational one, and will forever remain so.
Oh dear, I am going to sidle in as well now, although I think I will regret it. Sid and I don't always agree, especially about relidge, but I am with you on this one Sid. Whatever you believeor think aout Jesus the man, he did live and he was, given the proper evidence, at least a remarkable moral philosopher regardless of alll the other stuff. And I too think he might be depressed to see what rigid and unnecessary confines people have placed on his conversations. if we have to worship (whatever that means) it really is wherever and whenever - that old (mis)quoted "wherever 2 people gather in my name....etc" is valid and doesn't need a pile of bricks to make it so. However, the churches mentioned are beautiful!!
Oh dear, I am going to sidle in as well now, although I think I will regret it. Sid and I don't always agree, especially about relidge, but I am with you on this one Sid. Whatever you believeor think aout Jesus the man, he did live and he was, given the proper evidence, at least a remarkable moral philosopher regardless of alll the other stuff. And I too think he might be depressed to see what rigid and unnecessary confines people have placed on his conversations. if we have to worship (whatever that means) it really is wherever and whenever - that old (mis)quoted "wherever 2 people gather in my name....etc" is valid and doesn't need a pile of bricks to make it so. However, the churches mentioned are beautiful!!
Sorry - over excited and posted twice - I have been absent for a few days and trigger-happy....!!!!!
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
Steady on there Bern, step back and have a few days before hitting the button again.
I got lost on this one from post 1.
Crack on Spid.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Well all I can say to the latest replies is that if the Holy Scriptures are not taught to people, they can not prosper. There certainly are speakers - parsons, priests and from other congregations as well as school teachers - who are not negative, but only wish to serve God and Jesus the Saviour when talking in Church or at school during the religion lesson, by bringing the mesage over to the attendants listening. Jesus did teach that his followers shoud remain united, and the first Jewish Congregation that prospered in Jerusalem following the Resurrection, made a point of uniting in one or another house and sharing meals tohether, and holding to the Message of the Gospel.
We should not forget that the Gospel came two times to Britain, both times reaching the shores of Dover and spreading inland. That is why, when it came the second time, it was to Kent: Dover and Canterbury, from where it spread all over England. The Kentish monarchy reigned over an independent Kent at the time, but the English from every independent reign (Wessex, Mercia, Lindsay, East Anglia, Sussex, Essex, Northumbria, al recognised Canterburry as the central Diocese for all of England! We shouldn't throw away our Heritage!
There are ways of bringing Anglicans and Catholics and people from other local Christian congregations together into one Church, but this can only come about by consulting the Scriptures. To think about rebuilding Christchurch within the Court along Folkestone Road could be the ideal occasion! That's what the Fair Lady wants, for us to worship God by way of Jesus! By using the Holy Scriptures to have a dialogue, it isn't possible for anyone to lead anyone else astray, because many people could see what view is actually based upon the Scriptures!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
The way one leads one's life and brings up one's children is the best example of following ones own God.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
To go back to post 22, I do not think Folkestone Road existed in 10/11/12th Centuries.
I totally agree with Bern.
One of the most spiritual places I know is a site called The Sanctuary, just off the A4 between Marlborough and Avebury. I never go there without feeling there is something more... (it is or was a henge). Once there you forget the traffic, there is nothing but rolling Wiltshire landscape, skylarks and the occasional sheep. Food for the soul.
Guest 657- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,037
I'm with you on Avebury Diana, it's a very beautiful and spiritual area around the henge rocks. The sheep are very tame there too.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
I shall continue in hope that we may one day come into contact with some extraterrestial intelligence, which should then prove that we`re nothing special.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
I just hope that extra-terrestrial doesn't inform us that Jesus was actually Polish!!!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
could be sid, people that are against us celebrating st georges day, point out that the dragon slayer was not english.
usually saying that he was spanish or palestinian.
so what?
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Christchurch in Folkestone Road ? Built in 1844 on former farmland ?
"In March 1843, application was made to the Board of Ordnance for a piece of land to build a church in the Dover part of Hougham Parish, and the Board generously responded by surrendering nearly an acre of ground, which had previously been used as a garden, situated between Military Road and Folkestone Road, the site being chosen near the boundary of St. Mary's Parish, because the congregation was expected to come from that direction. The land was given on the condition that there should be space reserved in the church for 50 soldiers, and a proportionate number of officers. The money for the erection of the building was quickly subscribed. The foundation stone of Christ Church was laid on the 2nd of August, 1843, by the Rev. Thomas Morris, Rural Dean of Dover, Rector of St. James,s and Vicar of Hougham. Under the stone was placed a list of the subscribers to the building fund, some coins of the realm then current, and a parchment, on which was written: 'In the Parish of Hougham, otherwise Huffam, in the Borough of Dover, in this County of Kent, the foundation stone of this church, dedicated to our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, was laid on Wednesday, the 2nd ay of August, 1843, by the Rev. Thomas Morris, Vicar of the Parish. Trustees: The Venerable Walter Augustus Shirley, Archdeacon of Derby; John Pemberton Plumptre, Esq., M.P., of Fredville, in the County of Kent; John Hardy, Esq., 3, Portland Place, in the County of Middlesex; the Rev. Thomas Bartlett, M.A., Rector of Kingston, Kent; and Alexander Gordon, Esq., 37, Old Broad Street, London. Architects: Messrs. Scott and Moffat. Builders: Messrs. John and Parker Ayers, Dover.' The building of the Church occupied ten months, the consecration by the Archbishop of Canterbury (Dr. Howley), taking place on the 13th of June, 1844." (J.B.J. 1907)
Been nice knowing you :)
Wow Paul. Where did you find that info? Very interesting, not least that I had not realised that Hougham came down that far.
