Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
The French tribe used to carry spears. They were know as ................................... Brittany Spears!!!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Diana, I didn't dispute that, if you are referring to my reply on the posting about the pope being arrested. Infact I wrote precisely that a part of the Britons emigrated to Britany after the Anglo-Saxons came here. The Britons had come originally from Gaul, and therefore spoke a Gaelic language, and had great relations with the Gauls in nowadays France! I can't quite understand the drift of your point there!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Exactly right, Paul Scotchie, you got there! It was owing to Geography that Christianity came back to Kent at the end of the sixth century! In fact, with the Eastern Heights and the Western Heights, and on each Height a Roman Light-tower which Britannia inherited along with the Roman Empire, Christianity could only come back to Kent! The Haven being illuminated for this purpose.
And Britannia has now two Ports at Dover: the Eastern and the Western! And the Fair Lady's Light-tower Church is situated along the East-West line of the sun and faces Christchurch Court. Standing on the White Cliffs overlooking Dover and the Sea, the Gateway to Britain for the Gospel.
Utter drivel Alexander. The Roman lighthouses were for shippping, not gospellers.
Sid:
You know, I read and read your posts Alexander but they make no sense. No-one denies that we had contact with the Roman Expire (Holy or otherwise) and no-one denies that Christianity existed in Britain quite early. But if memory serves me, and I do not know how to override this and go and check on-line, the legends associate Joseph of Arimethea with the west country. St Augustine established in Canterbury and I would have thought that if there was already a well-settled Christian base in Dover he would have made for there.
And you still have not said why you think Dover needs a new Church.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Not sure why the fixation with Christhurch a 1840s construction ??
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Diana, thanks! The point of what I have been writing is that, Christianity came in the days of the Roman Empire to the Britons, to whichever extent, but that when the Anglo-Saxons settled here, as they were not Christians, and many of the Britons departed for other areas of the British Isles or for Brittany, there was a need for Christianity to be re-introduced. Hence, because Britannia had Her Light-towers glowing over Dover for this purpose, Christianity came back, arriving in Kent, and went on to Canterbury, and king Lucius' chapel next to the Eastern Heights light-Tower was increased into a college for the secular canons in the 630', just a few decades after Saint Augustine had come. And all this because the king of Kent who got Saint Augustine over, and the following king who succeeded him, made sure that Christianity prospered. What I've been trying to state is, Diana, that because Christianity is guided by the Spirit, from High, it was predestined that if the Christian Faith that came to the Britons during the Roman Empire ever disappeared, it would be sure to come back again, and that therefore these Roman Light-towers served a purpose of Divine Proposal.
Now, before you shoot me down in flames or put in your full and unwarrented support for Sid, I think you should consider that even the parsons and priests would agree with me there, that there is God and Divine Beings in Heaven serving God who look after us, and They can also see into the future. Rather than an impulsive reply, think that I might not be alone in this one, as any parson or priest would assure you that the Spirit in High does exist and can prepare ways and roads in the Interests of God's Purpose, even with great anticipation in time.
Still, I like your participation, even if sometimes a little slippery for me, as I often end up in Glastonberry or Stonehenge following you. But many thanks still, and please feel free to continue here!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Paul, aka Scotchie, come on, you can do better than that!
You know what? I shall feel free to follow here. I think that is the point of the forum. But frankly, your claims are getting wilder and wilder and I think I shall go and bring myself down to earth with some of the less erudite subjects.
Floreat Stonehenge.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
This thread is becoming increasingly bizarre! Is it really serious?
I'm unclear as to what Alexander is trying to claim - is it that the two Pharos lighthouses at the Heights in Dover were kept ablaze by pagan Saxons in the seventh century in order to provide a guidance point for early Christians to enter Britain? If so, sadly I think we are into the world of fantasy.
* Despite divine guidance why were these Christian missions unable to navigate across 22 miles of water to Britain without the lighthouses? Were they really that clueless or just bad sailors?
* Why would Germanic Saxon pagans in Kent provide beacons to guide Christian missions in the first place?
* What evidence is there that the Pharos was still lit in the early Saxon period, half a millennia after construction?
* What is the evidence for a chapel built by King Lucius? There is practically no evidence that King Lucius even existed as mentioned earlier.
* How do we know St Mary in Castro was even dedicated as such in the eleventh century?
We simply do not know where and how Christianity originally entered Britain as there is virtually no evidence for it prior to the third century. Yes, it could have been Dover. It could also have been via London, Richborough, Reculver, Lympne or any other port. It probably slowly developed via like-minded traders and settlers coming in, encountering each other in the larger cities and slowly forming communities.
As Sid states the Pharos lighthouses were there to guide shipping and trade across the channel and were built when the influence of Christianity was negligible throughout the Empire. They may also have had a dual function of signalling stations too. Don't forget that there was a third Pharos in Boulogne which was the HQ of the Classis Britannica and the size of a legionnary fortress. Compared to that, the CLBR fort at Dover was just a small outpost.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
While I am happy to agree that some Christian influence will have 'arrived' in this country via Dover, at times when the Roman empire was favourable towards it, we should also recall that the spread of the faith in this country is far more likely to have been through the back door so to speak. The Glastonbury legends that attribute the first church to Joseph of Aremethia during the first century are based on factual trading links between Cornwall and the West Country with the Middle East. A religion enjoying very little official favour is far more likely to have travelled with merchants rather than through official channels. As the same trading links also dealt with Ireland it is very possible for a Christian influence to have found root in the Scotti during their spread to the North of this island. The St Patrick legend has him sailing across (on a stone) to spread his faith here. Any later missionaries seeking converts will have sought out existing pockets of believers and it is these people who will almost certainly have come in via Dover or its neighbouring ports.
As to rebuilding another church in Dover, what is your problem with those we have and anyway who do you propose pays for it? If you think it should be local councils please list the services they should cut to cover the expense.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Thanks, Chris, at least you made a very good point there! You've come to the next phase of the topic. To finance the building, we should stroll into the Dover Museum, in the first room to the right before the stair-case is a picture of Saint Mary at the Castle, with a historic explanation, and above this a plaque, on which is explained in writing that king Lucius, first king of Britain, built a chapel next to the Eastern Heights Light-tower, and imposed port-tolls to endow it.
So, as I have been suggesting for some time over the past months, we should have a law for port tolls in British ports. As the British commercial ports, according to the project, should be administered each by the respective local Council (Town or District), this would mean that Dover's Town or District Council would be administering Dover's two Docks and cashing in a port-service toll on each vehicle (except those carrying charity goods). This would be divided out between the various Council treasuries, the County treasury and the National Treasury!
With the Town/District part of the income, the Dover Council could afford to fund many projects, Town and District wide, AND would't need any further Revenue Support Grants from the National Treasury! And we'd be all better off financially! All, here, means the community. And the Treasury in London would also greatly benefit.
Don't forget the Charter status of Dover Port, which negates all the suggestions Alexander makes.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Sid! Now that is something! Dover Port, you say! May-be you have heard that Dover Port has been threatened with privatisation, and that what I am suggesting would stop that point blank! Also, a representation of mine already reached London in February, to which I received a reply from the appropriate Gov. office, informing me that the proposals in my representation have been accepted for forwarding to the State Secretary along with the other representations that have passed the initial test!
Guest 684- Registered: 26 Feb 2009
- Posts: 635
Blimey, there's some people with a hell of a lot of time on their hands on this thread.
I'm totally confused, and am very pleased and relieved at that very fact.
I'll go now...
Andy
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
people seem to forget that the charter was drawn up when the harbour was little more than the wellington and granville docks area and what exists now is mostly the admiralty harbour which is just over a hundred years old.
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Paul Aka S, that's right, but there are also the Eastern Docks, dating from the sixties of the last century! This eastern port currently takes the vast majority of freight and all the car and bus traffic. I've been trying to point out on the Forum for some time, that many European countries charge motorway tolls, and also tunnel tolls under mountain passes as in the Alps, where the traffic that flows through any one of these tunnels can actually be compared to the combined traffic going through Dover Port and Shepway's Channel Tunnel. These Alpine tunnels, as the motowways, have long ago been paid off through tolls, so the money that they reap in now is almost totally profit, except a minimal fraction of a fraction that is required for maintenance!
If my proposal were applied, not only would it honour king Lucius's fantastic idea, but would offer funds to finance fantastic projects. As Dover would receive, according to my proposal, between the one and the other Council, 40 percent of the toll, this would imply a sum that would make Government Support Grant unneccessary. It would be to the benefit of Town, District and State. Also, the State would cash in with 30 percent of the toll, and the County of Kent with 30 percent. As you can see, the State would also save, on top of this gain, by not needing to pay these annual budget funds. As it would apply to all British commercial ports, it would be of great importance to the State Treasury, calculating all the Coiuncil budgets that wouldn't need to be funded by the State, and the 30 percent coming from each commercial port. And Shepway would also prosper, as well as Hampshire (a beautiful County where I also have lived!).
It can't be, Paul, that everything I write is a provocation! There must be something right in it. Concerning projects, as well as churches, many other projects could be funded: football club facilities, sport centres, whatever, you name it, many people could put forward proposals, the Councils of Dover could be really into it, funding and planning. And also DTIZ! What about that!
And Barry, he would be able to compile economic advice on how to spend the money and not overspend it! I'm sure he'd be happy too!
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
When I was at school, many moons ago, we had a very ancient English mistress. I can't recall her name but one of her favourite sayings was "Stuff and nonsence - too silly for words!"
I wonder why she springs to mind every time I read this thread
Andy, last one out turn the lights off please!
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".