I hope they sort this and it does not come to strikes i have my own reasons why this isnt good news .
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
we all hope so mark except for the government of course.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith, they just have to get their contracts and contract supervision right, many manage it and have excellent results. It is naive to assume it has to be better if done directly - that is far from the truth.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
As i say barry the same can be done with the NHS is at the moment
modernise it
look at shiortcomings
seeing and being presen t when private caterers didnt have enough knives for someone to cut meat is one of many examples iv personally witnessed on your claim that private is best
its not, its usually done on the cheap, corners -cut,
and the only losers are the patients
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Ross you are talking far too much sense. Look over your shoulder for the men in white coats.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
They will be on strike Peter
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Keith
I agree. Outside catering and cleaning contracts have been a disaster. Lets take politics out of the equation. For far too long politicians have 'used' the NHS as a political vote catcher.
So where do we go from here? I suppose cutting back on waste is a beginning. The amount of stuff that is wasted is unbelievable.Employing managers that can manage ,motivate staff. Getting shot of deadwood that can't manage without giving them golden handshakes.
Re-examing funding looking at various methods,tax,insurance and patient met but ensuring that at the point of contact that care takes precendent. Visitors paying for treatment either through insurance or out of their own pocket. Why should UK tax payers pick up the tab for a Nigerian visitor to have her child over here or have their broken arm fixed. It sounds harsh but having lived overseas I have either had health insurance or picked up the bill privately. The first thing the Doctor says on admittance is how will you pay? before they stop the blood streaming from your wound..
Local hospitals for local people meeting their daily needs with central specialised hospitals dealing with more complicated delicate illnesses. Why do we need mega hospitals miles away selling everything from a sprained ankle to lung cancer.
Meals for instance ,why not let patients who can afford it purchase an a la carte meal and those that can't or are not bothered have the 'menu de la casa'. So much food is wasted because the patients don't want or don't eat those type of meals when at home.
Reduce Red tape etc I could go on...
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Socialist or not Marek, a lot of what you've stated above, makes sense.
My sojourn in Canterbury hospital last month allowed me, for the first time ever, to be in hospital for more than one night and sample the catering - and I can honestly say it was simple, but very good.
Salads, casseroles, sandwiches etc. all done well and tasty too. I actually put on weight while in there, my blood-sugar went uip from 4.8 to 19 though.
Roger
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith that is, as I said, a naive and inaccurate view, either you have no idea of how it works or you do not want to know - given you history its the latter I suspect. I said already what is important is how the contracts are drawn and the levels of contract supervision. You just have to get that right and there are many examples of where they have done so, no Marek external contractors have not been a disaster and where they got those two key ingredients right they have been a huge success.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Marek.
No one can look at the NHS and say it is good and of course it needs reforming.
No government has run it properly over many years, so you are right to look at tackling this problem together, politics aside.
Your views are spot on for me and would go a long way to improving the NHS without privatization.
Privatizing the catering and cleaning has not worked, most intelligent people would have to recognise that fact, as it is there, every day, for patients and visitors, to see and experience.
Keith.
I am positive that when you experienced these short comings, whilst you was actually in hospital, as a visitor or patient, you were neither "naive or inaccurate"
Howard.
How does "naive or inaccurate" equate to bias?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i really cannot answer that gary.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Gary - once again your focus on the wrong part of the problem, ignoring outcomes and focussing on the means of delivery. Look at how well private hospital are run compared to the state hospitals as just one example. Your assumption that anything the state runs is superior is daft - to put it as politely as possible and goes completely against experience.
That is your own personal bias Gary.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Howard.
It's very simple actually; my point is that BarryW is allowed to continually abuse people with his personal attacks, mainly without rebuke by you.
On too many occasions, posters relate their own true experiences, only to be told by him, they are wrong.
That equates to being called a liar, which is offensive and is why I no longer respond directly to BarryW, as I have been very frequently called a liar by him in his usual camouflaged and condescending ways.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - I will give you some real abuse if you like, pathetic, grow a pair. You clearly need to find out what abuse really is.
Expressing a different viewpoint derived from a different experience does not equal a lie otherwise I could equally accuse you of being a liar. Likewise describing a view expressed as, for instance naive, is not abuse in the way saying the person himself is naive might be.
It seems to me that there are things that you do not like to hear and being unable to frame a proper response resort to the rubbish above. Look to yourself Gary.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
Now children play nice - or you will be sent to the naughty step
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Comon now lads, BarryW and GaryC, lighten up a tad. You are both very valuable posters so dont fall out . We cant be having guys falling out so we cant .. no abuse guys.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
fine by me
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
If the state-run NHS had been capable of running its own cleaning and catering regimes to an acceptable standard in the first place, the issue of privatisation/subcontracting would never have occurred to anyone.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
They did but it was introduced as a cost cutting exercise.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
I did some expert myth-busting this week with a bunch of nurses who are preparing for TUPE from NHS to private/third sector (don't know which until tenders are completed etc). Laid it on the line in a caring sharing kind of way: shape up or ship out, it's a business and you need to deliver the services effectively, to budget, on time, professionally and with a smile. It was done in their interests, as they seem to think the Old Ways will do - unless they wake up and smell the coffee they will find a shock and P45 waiting. And I don't have a problem with that. They were sharing with me how bloody wasteful the NHS has always been (as if I didn't know!!) and telling tales of the Old Days when hideously expensive dressings and treatments were played with by nurses just for fun in the idle moments. No-one stopped them, no-one was accountable, no-one seemed to realise that they were wasting shedloads of our money - as bad as vandalism and graffitti. Just to reassure you, it wasn't just a clobbering exercise - I was also there to help them learn how to upskill and manage themselves better!!
