Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Where, if I may enquire, is the nearest private teaching hospital?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Peter as nurse training is now university based any private hospital can be accredited to train nurses.
Many private nusing and residential units help train future health professionals and don't receive payment its part of good practice
Sorry I meant Tom. Must stop reading forum on train journeys
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Sarah, do training doctors and nurses still all receive a NHS bursary?
I used to go out with a student nurse and from what I remember she got her NHS bursary even when she 'defected' (as I used to joke). I thought doctors also received a NHS bursary too after a certain amount of time training. I may well be wrong but does this still stand?
Also I would be interested to know if professionals past and present in the NHS feel the cleaning standards have dropped since outsourcing. In know my friend who has been a nurse for over 30 years and worked in all of the local hospitals, feels that this is the case.
As a student you get a bursery from the university , or a full grant , you are not included in the ward staffing numbers as you used to be when I trained and got a full wage from the NHS . In my oersonal opinion both catering and cleaning standards have fallen since they where outsourced to private companies
I dont know the situation with medical trainees , thye probably are different as they are on "the staff " so to speak .
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Ok, thanks Sarah.
One more Sarah...
Would I be right in saying that the bursary is, as it was, more money than a standard student grant. I feel it should be, as these professionals are so important to our society, but is it still the case?
Im not up to date with the bursery figures , but my dim and distant memory is that it isnt , but I am more than happy to be corrected .
There is a plan due to come into force in ? 2012 where about two thirds of the bursery is to be replaced by a loan which would be repaid on graduation. Another proposal to make student nurses NHS employees , like they used to be has been rejected
I don't know how you feel, Sarah, but I also feel that nurse training is not as focussed or useful as it used to be. I hope that isn't rose tinted specs, as there were many things that needed uplifting in the "old" training - but the Uni based training has removed the heart of what nursing used to be and has not replaced it with anything other than paper, imho. There has to be a balance between the ward based and uni based education that nurses receive. Something that prepares them for the real world while also educating them on paper. It isn't there yet.
Absolutely Bern , there are still commited students but the training style is making it harder for them to get the skills they and the patients need , hence newley qualified nurses having to undertake a years further supervised practice before they are considered able to practice independantly
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Thank you Sarah, for opening up the possibilities and for clearing up the cross-contamination.
As to the academic approach now adopted in training nurses I do hope something is done to counter their common insistence on being right, whether they are right or wrong. I have encountered a great deal of 'seminar-speak' which at the very least needs to be diluted with a degree of common sense. I got the impression that hospitals are more used to dealing with people who are mutely compliant and in awe of all things medicine and to be found to be otherwise is perverse. This is all the more common the closer one is to discharge
At the sharp end, where death is as likely as not, I found the staff to be more open to listening, understanding and learning. Then again those involved there will have had that much more experience and training.
A nurse is certainly a worthwhile thing to be, but it takes a lot more than the paper qualifications and the uniform.
It's good too, as I last read of Bern's dealings, that there is a willingness to learn.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
As an outsider looking in from a patients point of view, the nurses no longer 'nurse' like they used to that seems to be up to any other person around who happens to have the time to spare. It almost comes across as if it is beneath some nurses, maybe with some that is because they are so highly trained nowadays or because there seem to be so few of them to a ward they have no time or just a bit of both.
Nursing appears to be more of a profession and no longer a caring vocation.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
GARYC;
Thankyou for your comments, i only report what i see
sadly barryw shows hes unable to accept others have opinions and often resorts to the personal abuse, i presume thats his only way of expressing himself?
for me i prefer to encourage eveyone no matter what background to post,
i will disagree with them if required, but there you go all part of life i suppose.
MAREK;
I support all that you say in your posting, thats the way forward as iv been trying to say in my many postings on this subject.
JAN;
The training of nurses, and the job role changed in a big way some years ago
which rsulted in many dedicated nurses leaving the hospitals in droves.
my wife being one of them.
sadly these were the very staff who would that extra mile, under a matron who ran the hospital and was in charge, today all we see is buck passing, no one in charge.
managers that obviously cant manage.
private contacts (and i gave an example of catering) that was not working and this was in 3 different hospitals.
GENERAL;
We do need to bite the bullet, we all see failings within the N.H.S. but as marek says we need to stop the political ball game used by politicians from the 2 main parties, and look at finding ways to make the N.,H.S. once again one to be proud of.
It can be done with the right mindset from everyone that can make a difference.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Those contracts don't work because they are managed by people unable to manage. That is part of the problem: expecting people with one skill - nursing - to master another which can be a bit different - management. If we did bite the bullet and allow the right people to manage the business it could work. It will be different, but if one sticks to the principle of free at the point of need and radiate outwards it is do-able.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Of course it is possible - but organisational culture change is complicated, slow and difficult; especially when the culture does not want to change. Gerry Robinson did a number of programmes on the NHS and worked with various teams to improve their efficiency etc. he found it almost impossible to get the teams to change from the "this is the way we do it" mentality
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Or "this is the way we have always done it" - a phrase I would cheerfully chop from the English language!!! I would be a rich woman if I had a penny for every time I have heard that!
On the upbeat side, it is possible to affect cultural developments, but it is oh so slow.......and takes baby steps.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
it seems like another cost cutting effort to cut waiting times for hospital guests.
One of the main issues with NHS reform is the Consultants contracts, They do not work to the same terms and conditions as other employees , its incredably complicated , I dont want to misrepresent how it works so its probably better for people to do thier own research . Basically the good ones work way over thier hours for no extra money and do privtae practice in thier own time ( which thye are totally entitled to do )and the not so good can treat private patients in NHS time and refuse to change working practices and in effect hold the system to ransom
Exactly - it is a complex business and it is more than just a mindset that needs to change!