Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Alex, I was merely sad that you had said you'd post no more on this thread and so would leave it before it got to 1000 posts.
I've followed this thread since its outset, have read all the CGI documentation, read the outline planning application and all associated paperwork, gone back up on the heights to the areas with which I'm most familiar to see how the plans would fit on the ground, read the DDC LDF, DDC additional corporate strategy, made myself aware of the financila benefits to DDC of additional houses, etc. So I'm not exactly unfamiliar with the points that you make re the new homes bonus fund and so on.
From all that I've read, I don't believe that Paul is necessarily wholeheartedly, or even halfheartedly, in favour of the CGI proposal and he's certainly not been campaigning to see it adopted.
I am a great fan of the landmark fortresses and fortifications that 2000 years as a military garrison town have left in Dover, Paul is passionate about them. I would like to see these fortifications preserved and improved so that they can be accessed by visitors all the time and not just on special one off occasions. Many others want to see this as well, Napoleonic buffs more than anyone else.
I am not getting involved in this discussion on one side or the other of the CGI debate because at this time I have no substantial alternatives to offer that will preserve the heritage for posterity.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
So Alexander based on your arguments for not building more houses then why did I not see you campaining against the new houses at Buckland Mill or on the site of the Soting Office or on the school site at Tower Hamlets, etc
Ah yes, they are not in your back yard.......
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
With regards to the Grand Shaft, as I have pointed out before, #969, was in 1995, completely renovated by IMPACT - The Joint Environmental Initiative of KCC and DDC.
It is now considered, according to the CGI-HS p60 it is in ' Poor condition and almost impassable access have however limited public enjoyment of Grand Shaft for many decades.' It is statements such as these this that is being replicated in order to convince people that the ONLY way forward is for CGI to allow them to desecrate the Western Heights and Farthingloe Valley.
Almost all of the Western Heights is a Scheduled Ancient Monument - Fortifications, Roman lighthouse and medieval chapel and contains two Listed Buildings - the Citadel and the Grand Shaft.
This National Ancient Monument, overlooking the Channel, represent the largest, most elaborate and impressive surviving example of early 19th century fortification in England - within it are an unparalleled group of fortifications that add up to more than the sum of their constituent parts.
Not only do we say that but Liv Gibbs BA MA (Cantab.) Ph.D. holds a similar opinion -p142 of the joint DDC, English Heritage and Kent County Council commissioned Built Heritage Conservation Framework for Dover Western Heights (BHCF).
Dr Gibbs lists a number of supporting statements, including that the site elicits, 'strong emotions and feelings of empathy in visitors to the site today through the combination of the immense scale of the site, the number, complexity and awesome nature of the defences, the range of defensive devices designed to outwit and defeat an attacking enemy force, and the architectural embellishment of defensive elements.' (ibid Gibbs p141).
Further, in 2006 Dover Town Council (DTC) considered applying for World Heritage Status (WHS) for Western Heights and in 2010 KCC applied for this status to cover the adjacent Straits of Dover. Article 15 of the WHS will prevent the destruction of the heritage coastline.
The fact is that CGI state, on several occasions, that their plans will permanently alter the character and appearance of the Western Heights National Ancient Monument. This is a sacrilege for which Dover will never be forgiven if the development is allowed to go ahead.
Lorraine
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
The population of Dover has declined dramatically in the last 60 years. Unless this is reversed there will not be enough people living here to support more than the most basic shops and certainly too few to encourage and support any leisure development. Without new housing (and DTC along with others have raised the point about including affordable housing in the schemes) those growing up in the town now will move out to find work and homes. We can watch the town grow, and do our best to make sure that such development preserves our heritage, or we can watch it die.
In a hundred years time do we want people walking over the hills saying, "these dips used to mark the largest Drop redoubt and defences in the country and that lorry park used to be the town centre of old Dover,"?
Ross, excellent 1000th post.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
Lorraine, if your campaign is successful and any development on WH is prevented, what happens next? Do you suggest that we continue with the status quo?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
ummm, yes the status quo..... neglected and decaying. That indeed would be the outcome. Its not only the Western Heights I am talking about either.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Paul, I only found out that Buckland Mill is being developed with housing when I walked past there and saw the construction work going on.
No-one had ever told me or informed me beforehand of the impending decision to build houses there, and so I had no way of objecting.
If I had known, I'd have objected on the grounds that that site ought to be used for an industrial complex, renovating the existing structure, as we need more employment in Dover.
Ross, DDC plan to build over 9,000 houses over the coming few decades in the Dover area (not counting other areas of the District), of which the majority have already been planned.
Our local population does not need anything near that number of new houses, so the point raised there is totally misleading.
Do we have a population increase with a tendency of 5-7 children per family? No!
Such arguments are designed to mislead the public, as they are not based on logical calculations. It is quite clear that so many new houses, and indeed housing estates, are meant to accommodate major migration to Dover.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
Alex, other than Whitfield, Sholden & part of Walmer, no other areas for housing allocation have been committed. That process is currently being undertaken & will be called the Land Allocation Document. It will come out for consultation in the autumn with decison making late December/January.
In planning terms these proposals complement those allocations & will form part of the overall land allocation if permission is granted.
In straight forward language they will form part of overall numbers required.
Watty
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 1008. What is happening with the consultants report DDC commissioned SHLAA...?
``Strategic Housing Land Availability Assessment``
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
Alex, re #999
"What about the children going to school on these areas?
Have DDC done a pollution measurement lately?. Have they made a pollution assessment in their grandiose plans?
Well I bet they haven't!"
68 page report here if you care to read it.
http://www.dover.gov.uk/pdf/APR%202010%20DOVER.pdfhoward mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
alex
the buckland paper mill site has been earmarked for housing for about a decade and a half.
the complaints from townspeople is that building took so long to start.
if you remember "seeda" had control of the site.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
As you know Reg. it all forms part of the whole and is not exclusive . Just an informative.
Watty
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Thanks Paul.....so anything goes then.....it`s all up for grabs......and we could end up with 27 homes in our back garden?.........
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#1007 - I don't live in Dover and I have known for years about the plans for the former paper mill !!
Been nice knowing you :)
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
No Reg , back gardens have gone with Prescott.
Consultation docs will be available for response. Your parish will be involved as they have to date.
Watty
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Correction ...SHLAA report still exists.....
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#1007 Alexander.
No DDC are not going to build 9000 houses.
By planning allocation they will facilitate the building of 9000 houses byt the private sector which will be subject to market demand. A very important point because we do not want a local authority to be speculating in property development with taxpayers money. It also completely throws out the thrust of your argument.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
OK then, Barry, the wording is: DDC plan for the building of 9,000 houses in and around Dover, and it doesn't throw out the thrust of my argument.
I haven't mentioned anywhere speculating with taxpayers money, but planning to receive growth points status and New Homes Bonus funds.
The point being, we do not need such a number of new houses, not even over a 30 year period. Dover has a population of about 30,000.
It's up for the local population to decide whether we want a massive population increase through systematic migration from elsewhere, and for this the local people need to be informed.
I will read in due course of time Ray's link about assessments, and am interested to see how 6,000 houses in Whitfield would not affect Dover's main roads.
In due course of time I will make a thorough research of all public consultation and assessments on Planning in and around Dover, in preparation of presenting my case.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
I knew about Buckland Paper Mill when I lived up in Suffolk.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Alex...I believe that the adult population of Dover District currently stands at around 106,000, with approx 20000 children and young people under 18. As you make mention of 9000 new houses I assume you are refering to the District and so the population of the District is rather more pertinent then the population of Dover Town which is home to just about 28% of the population of the entire District.