Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
People do not buy a house, even a weekend house, with the intention of locking themselves into it. They will be out at the weekend, shopping, eating in restaurants etc. A hotel and conference centre will attract more tourists, as will improved access to the Drop Redoubt and the surrounds.
Dover's population has more than halved in the last 60 years and with it the viability of many shops, pubs, cinema's etc. To make the town attractive to leisure facilities and to encourage a greater variety of shops we need more people. As DDC have foresaken shops and houses in the DTIZ in favour of a car-park (and thus reducing the viability of any future park and ride schemes) the new houses do have to go somewhere. Without a major change in the V.A.T. laws that make it more profitable to build than to restore this will be the case. Unless you can find a benevolent billionaire to donate match funding we need large developments to provide the funds to preserve and restore our heritage.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Dover Corporation !
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris' post rang a bell. Indeed, it was asked at the meeting why developers don't concentrate on Dover Town, renovating some run-down buildings.
Someone explained, can't remember now if it was Chris, that developers by law claim back VAT when constructing new buildings, but not when renovating old ones.
Again can't recall who did the explaining, but the explanation was, that developers in Dover will avoid proposing regeneration in the town for this reason, as they earn a lot more by building new houses and whatever (hotel...), on the VAT grounds.
This strengthens the point many of us made, that CGI are doing their own interests. not thinking of ours.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Rather irrelevant as CGI ALREADY own areas of the Heights and all of the Farthingloe site - why would they spend money on the town on something they don't own
As we have said before stick to the FACTS of the current plans being proposed....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Yes but Paul, that is the topic I'm pointing out: CGI own some areas on W.H. and at Farthingloe and are pursuing their own interests!!!
They purchased these areas with the intention of developing them at some point.
At the meeting 8 days ago, it was explained to us all - you were also present - that China Gateway was originally intended to be a project for assembling goods made in China so as to by-pass import laws, laws which later became irrelevant!
So the project never went ahead.
Consequently, China Gateway, after a change in name to China Gateway International, proposed to develop houses instead, and a hotel and conference centre.
The DDC core strategy does not include development of W.H. and Farthingloe into housing areas, and the corporate plan 2012-2016, which I mentioned previously, seems to have been added to include the CGI housing proposals, as their original plan fell through.
That's how I understand it.
In other words, CGI found themselves sitting on land that could not be used for the originally intended purpose, and need to have a planning permission - any planning permission - in order for its value to increase enormously so they can then sell it to developers, on it in order to repay their loan to Israel.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
this saga has all the trends to run longer than coronation street lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Strategies change when opportunities arise, they would be stupid not to....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Paul, weekend villas for Londoners on the White Cliffs of Dover cannot be a serious option...
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Until Dover gets a range of leisure facilities (theatre, larger multi screen cinema, adult night club) and a more diverse variety of shops, it is not going to become a 'weekend home'. Those who want a second home for easy access to France will buy in France.
It could very well attract commuters but even with the high speed trains we are at the limit of the time commuters are prepared to take travelling and road commuting would need the port traffic sorting out first.
Realistically and economically to get any of the above Dover's population needs to grow and to grow it needs new housing.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
just heard that all housing [preasnt] and future will be demolished along with old borstal building etc,to make way for a new 2 lane airport.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Noooo, Brian! That's Manston airport, another CGI project, Manston Business Park.
You must have confused the two CGI projects, but then it is so confusing, your misunderstanding is pardonable
This is from the CGI website, in public domain, Date 2011:
"The Compnay is pleased to announce that it has agreed additional funding from Israel Discount Bank (IDB), covering all its existing properties at Manston Business Park, Thanet; Western Heights, Dover; and Farthingloe Great Farm, Dover.
The funding will remain in place until 30th November 2011 on a profit share basis.
The facility will enable the Company to obtain a signed section 106 agreement on part of the Company's land holding at Manston and conclude the resolution to grant planning.
The Company has been working closely with Dover District Council and key stakeholders to develop an exciting regeneration project for Western Heights and Farthingloe. The Company considers that this can now be progressed to a planning application during 2011.
In addition, the major shareholders and Directors will consider supporting the Company's working capital requirements and accordingly it is considering raising additional funds from these parties by means of an issue of new ordinary shares.
The Company will provide further updates on both the Manston and Dover Properties in due course.
Ends".
Since then, Brian, CGI ceased dealing in shares!
Yes, it is confusing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well alexander,
think i asked a question some time ago,
everyone want's to see the survival of the western heights, that's not in doubt.
some want to see limited building
some vast building
some no building
all in the melting pot.
but your view of no build at all will result in little or no dosh being provided and therefore see the western heights deterioate, what plan would you suggest for this not to happen?
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Nothing confusing there Alexander.....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
My plan, Keith, would be that people are employed for a salary to look after Western Heights. I saw, for example, that plenty of gardening needs doing up there, there are weeds growing in front of buildings belonging to the Scheduled National Monument, right along the road, and no doubt grass and weed cutting in the whole area is a major task there.
This should be done in return for a salary, it would create employment and preserve the area for people to enjoy.
I respect WHPS for the work they do there voluntarily, but for work to be carried out on a constant basis and to a sufficient standard, it needs to be paid for.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
More tax for the punters Alex, they just love it.
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
looks simple to me, community payback scheme would be ideal for it.
not so much the monuments as knowledge is required in a lot of the work there, but military hill and citadel road are crying out for a team to regularly clear litter and weeds.
i cannot see many offenders complaining of working in such a beautiful setting, the added bonus is that fly tippers will be deterred if there are people working up there regularly.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Howard, why is gardening something that only offenders should do?
The kind of work that Western Heights needs on a continuous basis is full time, or, if part-time, then with double the number of employed people.
To do weed cutting, root removal, branch-sawing and grass raking, all by hand, or with elementary machinery such as a lawn mower or strimmer, you need passion.
I'm quite versed in all this, having done it as part of my work complimentary to painting and decorating,
It's hard, enjoyable only if you like doing it, and not something you can force people to do unless in a sentence-with-hard-labour scheme, which we don't have in Britain.
If all these noble jobs should be done as community service, then we might as well all do community service, and all get the same wage!
Of-course tax would be needed to pay workers on areas like W.H., Paul, but surely that means creating more employment, paying less benefits, and allowing people who do this work to have more money to spend in the economy.
I've just done a week's gardening, and feel so much fitter for it. But I can't afford to work for nothing. For which reason I wouldn't advocate that other people should work for nothing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that is my point alex - full time year round work.
offenders particularly young ones would benefit from belonging to a team and seeing the fruits of their labour.
much better than having them sitting around in some gloomy institution where they just develop a grudge against society.
i am not suggesting any sort of humiliation like dressing them up in orange jump suits or similar.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Get fund raising Alexander if you think it is that easy to just get hundreds of thousands of pounds to employ many people over many years to do the Heritage justice, with supervision, management. You need skilled tree surgeons, skilled brickies to repair the walls and repointing, scaffolding etc for access, security (EH had tools nicked on many occasions when they worked on the Redoubt), etc, etc.
Slight deja vu on this thread as we went through this before !!! This sort of work needs a lot of money. commitments, business plans, return on investment (ie vistors), and a large about of match funding if applying for HLF grants. Unfortunately there is no money and a long term plan is needed where a body (if it is WHPS) need to employe people to manage the work as we all have day jobs....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 750- Registered: 12 Apr 2012
- Posts: 72
Problem is Howard that the Institute is now an immigration holding centre, so it would not necessarily be prudent to use those people currently residing in there, hence why the landscape round the current housing isn't kept all pristine and manicured - the nearest institution would therefore be Canterbury - ok so here's a thought - what if the area was left to nature and became a nature reserve, which would in turn become the tourist attraction? The GS becomes a paying thoroughfare?