Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Dover loses out, because in most European countries, you pay to use a motor way or trunk road or other essential transport facilities, such as Alpine tunnels.
And the revenue is shared out locally and nationally.
In Britain, you just drive through, pay nothing, and so all related expenses to ports, roads, bridges, be it maintenance, or the construction of new facilities (for example T2), is paid for through indiscriminate taxation or borrowing money to be repaid with the interest.
So each day we just lose out, because people in a place of decision do not want to realise that we are possibly the only country in the West where the State is massively centralised with an unaccountable form of revenue and taxation system, which is left to indiscriminate taxation to pay for all expenses.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
So Calais receives money from the French roll roads ? Be interested in reading some information if you can provide me with some links....
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i seem to remember reading that calais recieves money for each passenger that passes through, all negotiated a long time ago.
hopefully someone here will have more information.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Probably as it is owned by the Calais Chamber of Commerce ?
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Set up by the French authorities at the end of WW2 and before Treaty of Rome negotiations completed a proportion of the port tariff for every ship call, lorry, coach, car and passenger goes to the town of Calais to 'repair war damage'. As a pre-existing and established part of Calais' tariff structure this was exempted from repeal when rules on trade tariffs and 'restraint of trade' were established under the Common Market. Calais does not receive money directly from French road tolls.
Dover and the UK missed a trick on doing something similar when they had the chance and it is now up to the UK Govt to put something in at a National level which can be justified, and stand a chance in the EU courts against the inevitable challenges that will be made by Govts elsewhere in Europe looking after their own trucking firms, under the umbrella of 'creating a level playing field for trade and transport competition' by charging a National 'Road Use' toll which is offset for UK registered drivers through a rebate on UK vehicle license duty (Road Tax). As we know from earlier in the thread, the DfT have already held a consultation on this, starting back in January this year, and are now in the process of drawing up the necessary legislation which will introduce a charge on road freight trafffic transiting our ports with a rebate or reduction on UK Road Tax for UK registered freight vehicles.
I'm afraid that these days, new local, port specific, tolls on vehicles would be defeated in the courts as has already happenned elsewhere in the UK (within the last 18 months) when they have been tried.
It remains to be seen if road usage tolls will be introduced generally to replace road tax or whether, as mooted several times over the last 20 yrs, road tolls will be applied to major new road infrastructure projects only.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Howard, you are an old pessimist. It'll be sorted before 2015:)
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
Paul, I had an inkling the Port had changed to regional govt. & was up for a similar change of ownership as Dover. Obviously that would be the French model , which probably does not mean privatisation as we know it. That was certainly what my French opposite number Philippe Blet told m e a couple of years back, whether it has taken place I'm not sure.
Wattt
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Since january 1st 2007, the Port of Calais has been owned by the Nord Pas de Calais Regional Council. The Port operations concessions are run by the Opal Coast Chamber of Commerce and Industry (CCICO) since January 2011. The CCICO also runs port concessions at Boulogne and Dunkirk.
In simple terms, the port is owned by the District Council and run by the Chamber of Commerce.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Oops!!!!!! That will start Alex off again.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
with that revelation from neil it looks like alex has been right all along, if we adopt the french model the port would be owned by ddc.
i do have doubts over our chamber of commerce running it though, barry has only so many hours in a day - may prove too much.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
And the French drive on the wrong side of the road, should we do that too
Been nice knowing you :)
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
Not DDC,Howard/Neil but the higher level beyond County, under former Labour gov. a Regional Assembly type body.
Nord/pas de Calais region is massive and run from Lille. It is a combination of Nord & Pas de Calais councils. Calais obviously is in the Pas de Calais with Boulogne area, Arras etc. I think Dunkirk is probably part of Nord area.
We have no equivalent.
Watty
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
so do we,acording to the rest of europe..
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Thanks for the correction Paul, I couldn't find an equivalent to the French Local Govt style in existance on our side of the Channel. Your explanation is much clearer.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Howard, Local Govt ownership still does not address the very basic question of access to capital markets for investment in port development or remove the potential for sale and re-sale in the future. If such were the case, there would have been no need to adapt the prevailing global ownership and governance models to a UK environment to come up with DPPT.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The Chamber run Dover Port?
No thanks..... not quite as bad an idea as a local authority running it though.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
Sorry Neil, not intended to be a correction. I agree French local gov. is complex or perhaps ours is strange to others & not the norm.
Watty
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
Just to add to the excellent info above:
The Nord Pas de Calais Regional Council also owns the Port of Boulogne. As stated, the Opal Coast CCI has the concession to operate both ports. Eurotunnel wanted a share of this concession but have not heard any more about this.
The Calais Port 2015 project backed by the Regional Council envisualises constructing a major extension of the port to seaward of the present port.
Boulogne is saddled with a deserted hub port constructed at a cost of 45 million Euros in expectation of attracting ferry traffic which has not materialised. SpeedFerries went bankrupt, the fraudster John Paul Airs BGV's never happened, and LD Lines trial service to Dover was short lived.
Dunkerque is state owned and has a massive LNG terminal under construction at Dunkerque West.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Dunkerque also has a major container terminal NFTI operated under concession by Termlink, the container terminal operating arm of French shipping company CMA-CGM, which acquired the majority shareholding in the concesssion from APMT, the container terminal operating company of AP Moller Maersk who also own the worlds largest container shipping company, Maersk Line, a couple of years ago.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
interesting to read that dunkirk is state owned, i wonder it performs overall in comparison with its rivals.