howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
much as i am in favour of devolving more power and responsibilty down to town and parish councils the reality is that most of the councillors will not have the time and experience to handle too much more.
most work full time and only have so much spare time to devote to public service.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
How would you propose making the transition without absolute chaos. People at KC losing parts of jobs, Dover / Canterbury etc people losing jobs, new people being taken on. All with everyone wanting the same or better services from the council???
Is Medway unitary that good?
In reality what everyone gets from their council tax isn't that bad really so with all the chaos how much would you expect it to save everyone??
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
who are you asking paul?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Well Paul, for a start we would be cutting out one complete tier of government.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Anyone Howard !!
Peter - that is what my question is really, even if it cuts out a layer of 'management', all of the day jobs still need to be done (planning, schools, highways, waste, social services) how much is it going to save people and it is really going to benefit everyone??
All I really see here is Reg is politically motivated, but even if you get rid of a few chief execs and some management, in the grand scheme of things the cost isn't that much....
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i am in favour of more shared services, clearly it has to be well thought out as we know departments in each council overlap with others.
i don't necessarily see unitaries as the way forward but a layer of local government needs to be cut somewhere.
most of us haven't a clue what goes on at the county council other than the staff are up in arms at the chief executive being made rich overnight and the leader going off for a one month jolly at a time when wages are pegged, jobs going and morale at an all time low.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
I see unitaries as moving away from shared services, there will be more areas of carrying out the biggest task KCC already carry out.
If you think of the huge budget (couple of Billion?) of KCC and if that has to be carved up and managed multiple times over kent it cannot be good?
Big things that they carry out are:
Highways
Schools
Social Services
Libraries
Recycling
Adult Education
If anything the smaller budget should be absorbed into the larger, so DDC into KCC and not the other way round....
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that is the logical move forward if reg and paul w get their way.
should mean cost savings but will lose in the local accountability stakes.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
So why can unitaries not share those services in the same way as districts can? After all the structures are already there. (re post 47).
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Seems a bit bizarre to suggest decentralising responsibilites just to try and recentralise them?
I'd like to know what the overall business case is for suggesting this?
Make hundreds if not thousands of people redundant to make relatively small savings in council tax which will probably make the services worse and have less local control ??
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Plus point me towards a Unitary that has truely worked well as I think they are still to prove themself...
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the major sticking point with me is that nobody knows who their county councillors are.
at district level we all know roger around my way, our susan is known well at river, john is known well in tower hamlets and a few other places he is not supposed to be.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
On general terms I agree with Scotchie, shared services, where neighbouring authorities are co-operating on sharing their services is best - gaining trust and respect for each other's abilities.
If, in a number of years time, a unitary becomes the natural progression, fair enough, but don't have it imposed now.
As far as I know those (local) services currently shared, are working pretty well, but if they were imposed, there would be much less co-operation and trust between the authorities, which is of paramount importance.
Roger
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
roger
like peter i don't share your view in total.
we at present have 3 councils with that comes all the expediture of officers/cllrs
etc cllrs alone at county costing close to a million at kcc
far to many cllrs and councils, many cllrs unknown thus not much use to the general public, and cost to you and I of keeping 3 councils running when 2 could do just a good a job the benifits would be high.
As to support for such a move is wide spread now, leading members now agreeing to such moves.
shared services is a good thing, but still we can go that much further
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 45...........Like the Hospital and Port issue..........Unitary Council issue is Non Political........purely economic/logic.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
So Reg, would you be shouting the same thing if Kent were all Red rather than Blue?
Keith, I still think in the grand scheme of things, the cost of Councillors is quite small in comparision with the rest of the budget. If it costs £1m for councillors at KCC for a £2b budget it is merely nibbling at the edges of the overall cost (0.05% if you got rid of them all)
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Yes...................and I did so 12 years ago............when I was leader of the Reds.......best to read the posts!!
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Ok taken.
So what would be the business case behind it + what are the banners going to be for the campaign? Lets make hundred of people jobless to save everyone a few quid a month!
Can't see how this is going to benefit me and the rest of the district?
Been nice knowing you :)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
paul scotchie
think reg has tried to explain
as peter says there would be a big saving not just the cllrs allowances
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i cannot see any examples of what savings are actually made by unitary authorities.
the only one i know of is medway, there must be many others.
somewhere there must be statistics that make the comparison between jobs lost and money saved.