Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard,you may be right but most of us could be commies.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Here's and interesting comparison of figures from the Office for National Statistics, plotting immigration against unemployment. Positive correlation, do me a favour!
Perhaps let's plot unemployment against the financial actions of the banks and the repercussions on our workforce. Or perhaps the nice 'outsourcing' by some other thrifty capitalist, to another country in the name of market forces. The capitalist model dictates employment, the same model that compels migrant workers to come here and the very same that results in them leaving when the jobs are not present.
Thankd DT1, now I see the potential correlation between high immigrant levels and low unemploment rates, but we can make statistics say what we want.
It is clear that as unemployment fell, so the level of immigration went up. It therefore leads to the question of how many more would have come of the unemployment registrer if the level of immigration hadn't been so high?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
That graph is helpful as we can see the impact on immigration very clearly after Labour get elected in 1997. It is obvious they opened the floodgates.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Yes Barry and the ridculously high levels of unemployment in 1993!
Of course we can make statistics say what we want Sid, my very reason for posting the graph. I also pointed out the lack positive correlation, not denying the negative correlation that you highlight. Perhaps the surge around 2004 (having no impact on unemployment) may have more to do with extra eastern european countries joining the EU and so weakening this right wing media myth even more?
Speculatively you could ask what would have happened to the unemployment level if there where not immigrant workers, but then as I say say you could could also ask what the outcome would have been if greed didn't lead to outsourcing.
I realise Sid, that you yourself support British companies and are proud to use them, as am I. However when assets (social and economical) are sold off (eg BT) and the profits of the shareholders become the priority, we erode this British identity and the social and economic capital it can create. If the country still owned it's services we could cry out and stop call centres being moved to India, but as it stands we have no choice other than to be at the hands of the share holders. The only people who don't proportionally benefit from this wonderful 'free market' is the workforce.
This government, continuing the work of Thatcher, seems to think that entrepreneurial business models will increase social mobility, but in the pursuit of greed, the people with 'successful' businesses go abroad where possible, undermining our unskilled and semi-skilled workforce.
Capitalists are happy to exploit opportunities and workforces abroad to make extra profit, yet unwilling to accept we are undervaluing our own workforce, that must be 'lazy'. They then call for the abolition of the minimum wage, attempting it is bad for the worker. But what would this do? Ensure wgaes are truly below benefits, oh right so reduce benefits and before long we have our very own 3rd world wages for our workforce. Their call is just really one to ensure the rich get richer and the poorer will be subservient to their demands. It's funny how some immigrant workers are happy to waver their right to this minimum wage in the same way greedy entrepreneurs are happy to exploit it.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
in reply to the post from barry on the rise in immigration, this not due to the reds, it is due to the new members of the EU being given the right to move from their own countries to the west.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Howard - sorry mate but the UK had the opportunity to restrict access to the UK by citizens of the 'new' EU countries. Germany, France, Ireland etc all did just that by NuLab dismissed this claiming only a few tens of thousand would come, they were totally wrong.
Besides, 1997 was before that happened and was down to the removal of three restriction on immgration and not replacing them with anything else. We have already also had a well publicised admission from Labour insiders that it was a deliberate policy to change the culture of the UK and to embarrass the Conservatives.
DT, it also shows how thanks to Conservative policies it started coming down 4 years before Labour were elected. I could go on to expand on how Labours 1970's government was ultimately to blame for the 1980 unemployment levels but those are old arguments. Every Labour Government in british history ends in financial crisis and with higher unemployment than it started with.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
This tread is very interesting .In todays mail there are several pages explaining the problems as are being experienced in Peterborough .
The picture of a lady aged 27 with seven children being given a council home after two weeks of living in the area .
The schools are overcrowded ,very few pupils can speak English .This kind of mass imigration does nothing but fuel unrest .
I was buying a house in that area nearly thirty years ago but husband died before we moved so I stayed in Dover .
I lived in Slough for eight years mass imigration does not help with happy community living .I accept we need some people to relocate in this country but there has not been enough control .
Read the article and see what you think
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Oh dear..the above post is typical tory thinking...but it made me realise why I have never voted for the Conservatives.Thanks Sue...I'll ask my mates to keep all the immigrants out of River so that you can enjoy your winter years.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
Yet again Marek you have missed the point .This country is on its knees .In the same paper today a young lady cannot access drugs for her Cancer condition ,the NHS is buckling
The education system cannot cope the English pupils suffer because of the language problems .Try teaching to a class where you have so many children from different races .,
You missed the point completely and with out causing too much offence Marek you do not see the bigger picture .
The flood gates were opened too wide and now its going to be harder to stop
You tell me why someone who is English has to wait for years to aquire a Council house and someone from another country gets one within weeks .Do you not see what unrest this causes ?? .
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
it seems that the conserative supporters on this forum are in denial in what they actully did/didnt do in the 80s and 90s,and seem hell bent in placeing the blame on the labour party.with more revolations from the tory manifesto in witch it seems to be insulting married couples and civel partners with a 150 quid tax break.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
"Every Labour Government in british history ends in financial crisis and with higher unemployment than it started with." and clearly without current immigration policy.
So perhaps it is true that the Spectator (a rather unbalanced source) are confusing two separate things! Unless of course we take a view that all things are linked, in which case big business outsourcing is equally blame, selling it's own country short!
Sue, you miss the point and do not see the bigger picture, that's why you read the Daily Mail, a publication that should print on the front page (i) it is largely a work of fiction. (ii) It's roots are in support of fascists (iii) It's owners are the real culprits of screwing Britain by mass tax evasion. Richard Littlejohn (described as the stupid man's Jeremy Clarkson...and that's saying something) has quite rightly been exposed for fabricating or at least twisting information, much like this story. The Financial Times reports that the councils in question (Peterborough etc) complained about relative funding, but actually acknowledged immigrant labour had boosted the local economy.
The "We're all doomed" and "where's it going to end" ideas that you get from your stupid tabloid is rubbish. There is statistically 2 rooms for every person in the UK, more than there has ever been in our history. The problem is we have people with too much money, with ridiculously oversized houses, for very few people to live in....but's that's OK as they're rich, that's what the Mail will say as they publish another picture of Camilla Parker Bowles and her 2nd Cousin...oops I mean Husband.
And as for you telling Marek to try teaching in a classroom with children of different 'race' (Although I'm not sure race necessarily has anything to do with language) Have you tried? Or have you just read about it in the Mail.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Sue
I worked as an Immigration Officer in the early 70's through to the late 90's and prior to that worked in Immigration appeals at Manchester Hearing Rooms and as a Visa Attache (overseas).So I doubt there is anything that you could tell me about immigration that I don't already know..but I am always willing to listen.
My father was a Polish WW2 Air forceman who came here in 1941 and worked hard all his life.My wife is from the Philippines and works as a Deputy Care Manager in a residential home.So we are a mixed race family.
I remember the abuse we suffered at school and elsewhere from having a non 'English' Dad but to the best of my ability and memory he worked through into his seventies as there were no other qualified or willing Brits able to do his work(draughtsman engineer for an oil well company)My wife worked in Dover where the English girls had adopted a different work ethic to those she was normally used to..ie bone bloody idle who had no respect for the residents or their employer.
Maybe a few 'immigrant' teachers may teach the next generation a thing or two about manners and earning a crust rather than being sat on their arses all day watching daytime tv or dreaming of becoming the next Jane Goody type big brother personality.
As for the Mail I wouldn't wrap my chips in it or wipe my **** with it.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Sid, I read your comment here about British people having nothing in contrary to Poles and Nepalese flooding our Country, and some strange speech about "military preference" as Poles and Nepalese are supposed to have fought shoulder to shoulder with the British, and the French and Australians didn't!!!!!!!!!!
I THINK YOU SHOULD GET THINGS RIGHT!
The French and Aussies have fought side by side with the British more than all the Poles in their collective history have had hot dinners. Secondly, I do have very serious problems with Poles marching through by their many hundreds of thousands and stealing our work, stealing our factories, and cashing in British money and calling it "E.U. money from Brussels". You spoke a very personal view there, but please Sid, count me out of your list of British who "have no qualms about it!"
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
AlexanderD
How can I put this politely? Bollocks.
My father was at Tolouse when the French capitulated and Paton 'surrendered' to the Nazi's,he was in utter shock.I asked him what was the reaction of the French Air Force lads.."they clapped and cheered" he replied.His next move was to march his squad a 1000 km to hop on a boat (British Warship not a P&O ferry!!) to the UK.
Poland is now part of the EU and their nationals have every right (subject to their suitability) to live and seek work in the UK.So you will have to like it or lump it.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Marek. Let's keep calm! There will be elections, many British people also want to get out of the e.u., and then many Poles will get out of Britain back to where they came from and stop stealing our work. We doon't need them! And we don't have to hand our money to them either, nor our factories.
Also, many French soldiers died fighting in the First World War, and in the Second World War, the Germans launched a surprise attack through the Ardennes which took the British and French by surpriese, using armoured tanks.
To be honest, I worry about not being "English" anymore, and about what the influx of so many foreigners will do to our culture, but after reading some of the above posts I feel like saying "bring 'em on".
As someone who lives very near the docks I am surprised not to have noticed the hundreds of thousands of Poles marching towards the town.
Several new shops have opened in Dover - I believe all of eastern european origin.
Good for them. If they bring something to the town it can only be good for us.
I do not always agree with all Marek's posts but in this instance - YEH!!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Diana
Thanks
As a Polish descent and dual national I feel rather strongly about this subject which other forumites may disagree with as is their choice...but would AD , Sue et al be allowed to refer to 'blacks' in the same manner as to the way they have referred to Poles.I doubt it.
Its racism pure and simple.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
It is not racism .Just stating the facts pure and simple .How is it other countries control how many people they allow into their country.The uk is a very small country and it cannot keep allowing people what ever their nationalty Marek to come into our country .Black,blue ,green what ever .
The drain on our resources is enormous .
By the way DT1 the article was Sue Reid .
There must be an element of truth as the original letter from two councillors was on headed notepaper .If it is untrue very unlikely then that journalist would be in deep trouble
I dont think your calculations tre bed space is at all correct .
.
