Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Maggie had no management skills what so ever
Dismissed her cabinet ignored the pain she inflicted
If it wasn't for the war she would never have gone on so long
But fortunately she made the conservative party unelectable, so not all bad
Guest 756- Registered: 6 Jun 2012
- Posts: 727
Don't forget Maggie had to enlist the support of McGreggor, no-one in her cabinet would support her stance enough to take on the role of strike breaker.
Believe it or not, there were many other voices that the miners listened to, economic and political experts.
Barry, please accept the fact that we can disagree amicably, being nasty is so ugly.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
A fact
Derived from the Latin factum, is something that has really occurred or is actually the case.
The fact.
We chose to defend our communities and fight to stop the closure of the Kent Coalfield.
The fact is not open to your interpretation.
Whether that was a right or wrong decision, is open to opinion.
You stated
"If they really cared so much about their community and their jobs they should have been more sensible and moderate.
Was Thatcher sensible and moderate with us?
Nottingham chose to trust her, are their pits open now?
You also stated.
"As I said - they did not really care about their community"
If you really believe that, then perhaps you would like to go to Aylesham's Heritage Centre any Wednesday morning and repeat that statement, to some of finest men I know?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well said garyc
barryw would get lynched there
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
And lynching Barry would be right because......?
Sorry but you have just destroyed your own argument. There are many wrongs to be righted which arose from the dispute but to suggest lynching a commentator 28 years after the event is just more plain evil.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Peter
dear dear, this is desperate stuff from you.
of course im sure the devoted ex miners(done it myself for a short time) would welcome an open debate with barryw
like garyc and Lesley I would prefer the company and support of miners
but that's choice,,,
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter
No lynching.
It's education that's needed.
Some people only know one side of the story and refuse to hear the other side.
The other side for us, is now coming into the public domain but some it seems, will still choose to ignore the facts.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Garyc
Of course you are correct, apologies if I allowed peter g to do a red herring.
Getting back to the subject
There is so much within the strike
Scargill getting it wrong
Role of the Police at the time
Way Maggie did it all
Intimidating magregor
wrongful sackings
the list could go on,
Lesley's post of the working miners intimidating was interesting to
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
It was certainly a very traumatic time for so many through no fault of their own and those involved will never forget, but I think it really is time to move on and think of the future rather than keep dwelling on the past.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Jan
At last I can partly disagree with you again(so much agreeing was worrying lol)
When you have had you life ripped apart, a year long strike, little food, little money,
and in general mis truths you can understand why ex miners want there names cleared,
I have family members who lost there job/pension everything through this dispute.
So move on isn't that easy.
Garyc has mentioned the centre in Aylsham, where miners in there community have moved on
but none of them will forget how there communities were ripped apart,
im sure garyc will add to this
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
An erstwhile resident of St. Margaret's speaks out:
Ignore the facts, ignore the facts
you'll be lord of your dominion
when all's a matter of opinion
and you give ne'er a fig for brass tacks
ignore the facts, ignore the facts
Ignore the facts, ignore the facts
you'll find yourself in Heaven
when your knob goes to eleven
and you'll feel ever-so more relaxed
ignore the facts, ignore the facts
Its best to be disinclined to argue
lest others get the better of you
yes, its much better to play dead
when scoundrels hit the nail upon the head
ignore the facts, ignore the facts
Ignore the facts, ignore the facts
for such things get in the way
of your being victor on the day
and anyway
bombast more punch packs
ignore the facts, ignore the facts
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Keith, I am willing to bet that those miners that have moved on are more content than those whose hatred is still festering away.
I am sure the vast majority of those living in this area know the truth about what it was like for the innocent families who were the real victims of the strike at that awful time.
Sadly those that were or are living a blinkered life will never accept that lies were told by both sides so will never change their opinion.
I am now retreating to the garden with my coffee and Kindle, it is far to nice to be stuck inside talking about the past.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Still much to come out on both sides. Neither the government of the day, the police nor the miners' leaders will emerge with any credit, once all the facts are known. But they probably never will be. And even if they are, there are many on both sides who will not believe them.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Peter
on that we agree
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Jan.
In all our talks and visits to schools, village halls, etc. It is the 100+ years of history of the Kent Miner and his family that we promote.
How they came here from all over the country and changed the way of life, for the better, in our surrounding Towns & Villages. We reveal the real fascinating story of how our mining heritage developed. We give an insight of what it was like to work underground and tell historic and often heroic tales about the dangerous working life,in our collieries.
We show films about how they were segregated in the early years and were forced into creating their own communities.
It was these communities that promoted religion and education, all types of social activities came forth from these communities with their Brass Bands and Choirs, all types of indoor & outdoor sports activities, welfare clubs and even medical centres.
The miners shared these with everyone.
They showed what benefits could be gained from community spirit and our towns and villages was a better place to live in because of the miner.
The most asked question at these talks,is why has this side of the story not been told before?
The truth is that it has but because of the stigma attached to us from the strike, no one took the trouble to pick up the many
great books that has been written and read about it for themselves.
The strike is rarely spoken about but questions are addressed if they are asked.
Because we are now being given the opportunity to portray the real and little known lifestyle of the Kent Miner the truth is now filtering out there.
The strike should not be the only thing that the Kent Miner is remembered for.
Only when a person knows the true storey can he/she make sweeping statements about our culture.
We did not want to go on strike, we just wanted to keep our pits open and they should still be open today.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
good post gary c
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
"Only when a person knows the true story can he/she make sweeping statements about our culture."
How very true Gary , as Keith says a good post.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Courtesy Independent..............
Cuts to legal aid are an attack on working class, says '80s miners' lawyer
Government legal reforms will deny poorest in society justice, says leading UK lawyer
A leading civil-rights lawyer who helped striking miners successfully fight false accusations from
police during the infamous "Battle of Orgreave" has said it would now be much harder for them
to achieve justice under the Government's legal aid reforms.
Raju Bhatt, who has specialised in cases involving abuse of power or neglect of duty for more
than two decades and was named legal aid lawyer of the year last month, told The Independent
that the changes to legal aid could cause an "exponential rise in costs" for the Government -
and deny the poorest in society access to justice.
One of Mr Bhatt's first actions against the police was winning £425,000 damages from South
Yorkshire police for assault, false imprisonment and malicious prosecution on behalf of 39 miners
during the 1984-85 miner's strike.
But under the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 (Laspo), Mr Bhatt
warns that it will now become far more difficult for those without money to get justice.
"Some of the first work that I had the privilege of doing was the miners' strike and their attempts
to bring Yorkshire police to account," he said. "Now, criminal defence practitioners have faced
the brunt of the devastation that has been wrought in the name of legal aid cutbacks, and so the
opportunity to bring the police to account through the civil courts might not have been open
to them at all."
Although the Government has backed down on plans to deny defendants the right to choose their
own solicitor in criminal cases, it still aims to slash £220m a year from the legal aid budget.
The cuts mean entire areas of civil law will no longer be eligible for legal aid, including divorces,
immigration where the person is not detained, some employment and education law, personal
injury and negligence, and debt, housing and benefit issues.
