Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Thanks Jan.
But Bern, if the legal system is not acting in the public interest, or not protecting the public, then it is not a good legal system and the path we seem to be taking with our legal system is that it is not protecting the innocent, law abiding person, but supporting those who want to abuse others and that cannot be right.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
very true roger, the current legal system does not protect the public in the way that it should.
police persons have to tread on eggshells instead of just simply feeling the collars of miscreants.
much as i have read and understood the arguments that members have made here, i am still of the opinion that i would have been delighted and relieved if i had been on the train in question and the action had been taken.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
So let's get into this a little more and take the advice that some give and allow the guy to stay on the train, we have;
1; other disgruntled fare paying passengers, who are delayed and not happy with
the outcome of allowing the guy to stay, so will this encourage some of them
to do the same seeing nothing is done?
2; Travelling with the guy on board and calling ahead to the British transport
police, this is all ok, but it costs millions of pounds a minute to hold a train at
a station, having worked on british rail and knowing how long it takes
the railway police to arrive surely that needs ironing out?
3; Although the guy putting the youth off the train did so in a fairly heavy
manor(not reasonable force) this was probably through frustration at the
lack of progress by the guard.
4'; the guard probably requires to go on a customer care course or some
kind to be able to speak in a reasonable manner
5; the police have there hands tied reference the guy who put the youth off
the train, but should equally have dealt with the youth who was clearly
abusive to the guard.
just a few of my thoughts,,,,,,
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Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Keith, There is nothing quite like thinking.
[Thank you Bern.]
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
So, if I don't like how someone is behaving I simply shove them about a bit? (You are welcome, Tom)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Roger, I think the ticket controller exagerated by not letting the train move on, there was no harassment towards the passengers or the train's safe passage.
The use of REASONABLE force in self-defence of oneself or another person is one thing, but to use violence in this case was not on.
To talk to and not physically attack is always the best option.
The ticket controller was obstinate and probably abused his position to the detriment of all the passengers on the train and of the whole train service (people travelling on other trains in service).
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
The yob/mouthy git/tourettes sufferer - call him what you like , was not hit at all, just man-handled off of the train because he refused to pay for a ticket and was shouting and swearing and abusiong fellow passengers.
Defending such a person - in my view, makes them as bad; if that is acceptable behaviour, then I give up.
He was put off (O.K. shoved off) the train and that should have been an end to the matter - he would have been shown that you simply can't travel without a ticket, or abuse other passengers without a consequence, the train would have continued on its journey and the passengers got home without much delay.
Now it seems, the law-abiding passenger has to keep their mouth shut, sit on their hands and wait patiently for the "offender" to wear himself out from swearing.
He may be arrested at the end of the journey, but probably not; he will have got away with his behaviour and that is wrong - it must be.
Roger
I don't think anyone has defended the oaf, Roger. Indefensible! Neither is anyone saying we should not intervene - I think we have a civic obligation to act. But I am saying that there has to be a line drawn - it could be a matter of anyone who disliked anything anyone else says just shoving them around, because they can. At what point - just because we don't like the relevant law or we don't think it meets the need - does the person shoving on civic grounds become the thug?
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
There is the tacit contract we have each with the other, (no abuse, no assault etc.), and there is the very real and tangible contract between rail passengers and carriers.
The latter was torn to shreds, the former crumpled on the one hand and violated on the other. [the distinction is gross because of the physical contact]
What keeps this issue going here, so far removed in time and space from the incident itself, is the placing of oneself within the scenario and the adoption of the conflict to represent and replace some personal slight in the life of the observer. [the second point here is a guess on my part, but a reasonable one (?)]
Might it be too much to ask that instead of, "yob/mouthy git/tourettes sufferer" vs maligned hero we were to consider, "unfortunate traveller vs industrial leviathan"?
It is, after all, a situation involving two mother's sons and one grasping-gormless-giant. A Pantomime for the times?
Happy Christmas eve to all.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
TOM/BERN
I'm understanding of ROGER'S viewpoint, you need to be a regular traveller on british rail(or there new name ) to see what goes on.
That said, and on this case, there is no doubt as i said in my previous posting, that the guard was in need of some kind of course on how to deal with situations like these.
The yob(yep, happy to call him such) was clearly abusive towards the guard for quite some time.
Now if it were correct that he had an incorrect ticket(i suspect this not to be the case) then the yob rather than abusing the guard(at the end of the day he doesn't make the rules of travel) he could have, at a later date taken it up with the rail company.
So let's please look at this in an even handed way, yes ok the yob shouldn't have been man handled off the train, but frustration does creep in.
then of course this yob was as guilty as the guy putting him off the train.
is ther yob to be prosecuted by the police?>
is the rail company looking to prosecute the yob.
all to quick we jump to the defense of the minority who give a lot of grief to the majority.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
with you there keith, anyone who travels regularly on public transport in the big cities has a lot to put up with and frustration creeps in.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
north kent is also a good example howard
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Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
British Transport Police said last week that they had received a complaint about the incident and confirmed on Wednesday that Mr Pollock, who has been dubbed "The Big Man", had been charged with assault.
Mr Main has not been charged, but both men have been reported to the procurator fiscal.
A spokesman said: "British Transport Police can now confirm that a 35-year-old man from Stirling and a 19-year-old man from Falkirk are the subject of a report to the local procurator fiscal in connection with an incident on board the 9.33pm Edinburgh Waverley to Perth service, at Linlithgow on Friday December 9 2011."
A Crown Office spokesman said: "The procurator fiscal at Livingston has received reports concerning two males in connection with an incident in Linlithgow on Friday December 9 2011.
"The reports remain under consideration by the procurator fiscal."
From...
http://news.stv.tv/Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Roger, I agree with Bern, it would be a bad habit if people started shoving other people about, if a security guard allows a passenger to get up and throw another passenger off a train.
Violent reactions are proof of the absence of reasonable debate. If it was for a trivial £2 ticket, and another passenger had offered to pay the fare for the young man, the case would have no doubt ended there, to everyone's satisfaction.
Who was it who said: if someone forces you to walk a mile with him, walk two miles with him"?
Merry Christmas!
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
looks like this yob has most of you on his side then?
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
which you are talking about,im all for throwing off trouble makes,esrecaly when the trains moving.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
it appears the majority view doesn't mention the yob
nor any thoughts on how she be dealt with
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
I wholeheartedly agree gentlemen. Time for a glass.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
That yob and others like him should learn some respect.
The do-gooders of this country have made a rod for all our backs, parents, teachers and the police get no respect from these youth's, so the general public can certainly whistle.
Arresting the ejector is just sending yet another wrong message to our youth that they can act as they wish in public.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Calling people yobs is in itself a sign of a lack of respect towards our fellow passengers in life.