8 November 2010
00:0479027Alexander D,
I thought in an unguarded moment that you had returned to normal!! silly me.
I believe there is a rather quaint randomly used term for your policies.
"BOLSHEVISM"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
8 November 2010
00:1179029nah! It must be the end of New Labour's disaster that Gov. is seeking here, 'cause many employers in the private sector couldn't give a toot about unemployed people, when it comes to choosing healthy and diligent young workers at a minimum wage. That leaves only Gov. and the State to employ the millions of people that New Labour sacrificed.
Incidentally, it might not lead to people just getting into a routine of rising at seven, but actually having a reason to live for! Why should so many be privileged, on account of their being ready to get any job going, and others just left to rot?
Guest 706- Registered: 25 Oct 2010
- Posts: 285
8 November 2010
00:1779030I know someone who hasn't worked for forty five years. Developed a bad back at twenty. Gardens,walks,drives carries heavy shopping etc.
There should be a way of weeding out the real scroungers.The money for nothing,drinking,smoking take all and give nothing type.
They've had it far too good for far too long.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
8 November 2010
00:2279031Dear Penny, you are evidently making one sheaf for every unemployed person! I could write here who might correspond to the category you just mentioned, but I don't want to get into trouble on the Forum!
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
8 November 2010
12:0779058A very good idea but it will only work if the person involved want to do the voluntary work they are given. We have had two youngsters allocated to the shop by the Job Centre, both were useless because they did not want to be there.
Penny...
There is an answer to the scroungers and it is quite simple really, you report them with details of what they are doing. The problem is that most people like to complain about these scroungers but do not report them.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
8 November 2010
12:0979060Yep agreed Jan
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
8 November 2010
12:1179061Perhaps before we all get too uptight on those who are defrauding the state we should consider whether we have either done a job or paid for a job to be done 'cash in hand'?
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
8 November 2010
12:2979065Yes, I have to a hard working tax paying builder. I would not do the same to someone who claims incapacity benefit and is fit to work, would you Bob.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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8 November 2010
12:4179067Jan, with all due respect, your builder was both tax paying and tax avoiding..............
As to your question, I suspect that in real life, both you and I tend to try to avoid asking too many questions so that we do not put ourselves in a moral dilemma yet still get the job done 'on the cheap'?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
8 November 2010
12:5279070you're right there bob, i doubt there are many people that have not paid "cash in hand" for a job.
8 November 2010
13:0379075In all seriousness the infrastructure of the UK was transformed in the 18th and 19th century with gangs of people equipped with little more than a wheelbarrow and a shovel who built the canal and railway system.
Surely with a huge labour force twiddling their thumbs all day it's an ideal time to do the same.
High speed lines could cover the country and a wide lock canal from Jock-land to the south with branches to centres of population would provide both a 'greener' transport system (ready for an upturn in the economy) + a means of shifting water from the north (wet) to the south (dry).
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
8 November 2010
13:1379078As the builder in question was working on a Sunday I did not feel at all guilty.
I thought we were talking about scroungers not tax avoidance. One milks the system the other helps to pay that scrounger.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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8 November 2010
13:1879080Jan, might I suggest that someone avoiding paying £10 into the public purse which he should pay is exactly the same as someone taking £10 out to which he is not entitled?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
8 November 2010
13:1979081that is tax evasion not avoidance jan.
avoidance is when someone studies the rules and uses them to his or her advantage.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
8 November 2010
13:5279087Jan/Bob - Not declaring he aforesaid £10 to revenue in your tax return is tax evasion, not avoidance as it is illegal not to declare the money.
It matters not whether you pay a builer or anyone cash or not, it is his responsibility to declare the money if he does not then he is breaking the law.
Evasion is illegal
Avoidance is legal and quite legitimate to ensure that you only pay what you owe. This is available to everyone, rich or not.
8 November 2010
13:5679089Barry, I stand corrected. As someone who has successfully used every loophole for avoidance as opposed to evasion I should have been a lot more precise. Mea culpa.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
8 November 2010
18:3779155At first it seemed this thread was dedicated to an idea that Gov. had come up with, but which in fact - and very unfortunately - did not happen. Howard, unfortunately, there is no such plan as described in post 1.
What stuns me, though, is that there is a heavy-handed dishing out of the word 'scroungers'. Benefits claimed legally do not come under scrounging. Working on the black is something entirely different. My suspicion is that the word 'scroungers' referred to people who are unemployed and receive a benefit. Usually, it is understood in this way, as working on the black is not referred to as scrounging, it's tax evasion.
But, with millions of people on unemployment benefit, and hundreds of thousands about to leave the public sector, may-be or more thought-out expression of the benefit-seeking reality would be appropriate.
Also, I think it would be a very dangerous tool to take away unemployment benefits from people, in any circumstance, as this would be paramount to condemming a person to die of hunger.
Were it hypothetically ever to happen in our Country, which I strongly doubt, and people condemned to starvation and to no roof over the head started protesting and entering shops to eat a role, please, Jan and Penny, DON'T ask me to club them down, because I won't!!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
8 November 2010
19:1079162alex
post 1 still stands, it seems to be aimed at those who have been out of work for 9 out of the last 10 years then extended to others.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
8 November 2010
20:3679169I specifically informed myself this morning, and was told that there is no such programme, but may-be your information is new and still not widely known. The reason why I am interested is because it is one step in the direction of what I have been proposing, to help unemployed people, and young people who are at risk of unemployment on leaving school or being made redundant.
It is a standing part of my campaign, for Dover and District, to help in as many ways as possible people to be able to have the practical possibility to do any work at all.
If you find out more, can you let us know?
Guest 706- Registered: 25 Oct 2010
- Posts: 285
8 November 2010
20:3779170#24
Alex,I don't know how my comment could be taken as tarring all unemployed people with the same brush.
I distinctly said,and I quote "There should be a way of weeding out the real scroungers."
Thank you