howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
7 November 2010
18:3878978#1
the work and pensions secretary has announced that long term unemployed chaps and chappesses will be put to work on projects like gardening and litter picking, the work will last for a month/30 hours per week.
what i found interesting is that the right wing ian duncan smith described it as a chance for people to get into the mindset of a structured working life, getting up at a certain time, being busy, then going home at a certain time, much like the mainstream of society do. the liberal soft left danny(ginger rodent) alexander described it simply as a sanction, much as norman tebbitt would have done.
all very confusing, what does the forum think of the scheme?
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
7 November 2010
18:4278980#2
Frankly about bloody time too
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
7 November 2010
18:4778981#3
It's just another way for the money-grubbing Tories to sack decent working folk and get streets cleaned on the cheap. Honest benefit recipients should not have to do anything more than turn up at the jobcentre once a week and stay fit enough to lift the TV remote control. Disgusting.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
7 November 2010
18:5278983#4
Howard,
Have to say can see both side of the argument to a certain extent.
Yes there are some lazy sods out there who have no intention of working and yet there are those who would give there right hand for a decent job. Lets face it 30 hrs on what the blue IDS is going to pay those hapless souls probably would not cover mortgage payments never mind all the rest of living costs.
And while all this beating the unemployed with the big stick is going on we have 80,000 prisoner guests?? sitting on there bored arses (not literally I may add) doing sod all and yet still being well fed accommodated and clothed.
What ever the outcome of IDS policies there is plenty of rubbish to clean up in Dover.
And now I make way for the sage of the local blues Barry W. (I know my place)
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
7 November 2010
18:5778985#5
I'm a great believer the benefits system needs a serous upgrade
but what worries me is the hard grafter that looks around for a job for a year with not that many jobs around doesnt get employed(not through his fault)will have his benefits reduced for up to 3 months
I hope there will be some flexibility on it all
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
7 November 2010
19:0578987#6
jimmy
good point about the prisoners, that will be solved when our new justice secretary has let them all out and they start to sign on.
the problems i see are the start up costs for people who are going to work for a month and people who refuse because they are bone idle and their kids suffer because of it.
i would have thought a voluntary scheme to start with then enforcement later, that way the genuine claimant gets the pick of the tasks on offer.
council fuhrers will be licking their lips at the thought of cheap labout to carry out basic tasks in these cash strapped times.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
7 November 2010
19:1378993#7
Great idea Howard. When do I start?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
7 November 2010
19:3878994#8
Im still waiting to hear where all these jobs are ? the conlibs are making thousands redundant yet expect people to just walk into jobs and dont get me started on the lack of uni places or nhs jobs !
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
7 November 2010
19:5578996#9
Thee are lots of things that need to be done in every community that cannot be done due to lack of funds or manpower, these are exactly the sort of things that people should do in return for financial assistance off the state. Similarly these may well be tasks that get done by people on community service.
I wanted the state to go further and offer kids at 16 a simple choice, stay at school/college and get paid (subject to attendance etc.), do community service for 2 years and get paid benefit or get a job - no one who does not do the first 2 will get money off the state and those who get a job at that age probably do not need state handouts. We have to make it attractive for people to stay in education and make themselves more employable. I also want the state to work with colleges of further education and local employers to create job clubs that sponsor trade relevant courses in colleges and provide work placement opportunities to kids on those courses and possibly traineeships etc.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
7 November 2010
20:3479000#10
Hurrah for Ross!
I am a supporter of the welfare state, but it is a different ball game now to when it was started out of austerity in the last century. It is, as you say, about bloody time we made it clear that there are expectations and responsibilities as well as rights and entitlements.
7 November 2010
20:3479001#11
Lovley dream Ross but sadly these goverment pen pushers dont think logicaly.
7 November 2010
20:3679002#12
No dream - a workable business direction with the right visionary in place.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
7 November 2010
20:4879004#13
No it's not a dream Ross, it's actually happening (at least in part) The academic year that would be leaving 2013/2014 will be expected to stay on at school for 2 years, find training or employment.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
7 November 2010
20:5579005#14
don;t see it as workable if it is just down to a job a month, the admin involved would outweigh the benefits to the community.
it would require additional civil servants to do the endless form filling at the start and end of each placement.
keith made a valid point about flexibility, for example it is generally accepted that anyone in their fifties that gets laid off is more than likely never to be offered another job. this would mean that if they were put on this scheme they would be treated the same as offenders doing their community payback.
getting back to the time span i would go for 6 month individual programmes, one look at the folkestone road(parts of) and the area on the western heights from the citadel down shows that long term work is needed to get it back to some form of acceptability.
i am sure that others will have their favourite spot for cleaning up.
7 November 2010
22:3079018#15
As I understand it, the system is that if you have been long term unemployed you will be required to work for 4 weeks to earn your benefit. Simple. Approached constructively it means that the person can get used to a daily routine again and the discipline of a job - have the great advantage of being back in the marketplace so that they may get taken on after and contribute something useful to the country for part of their benefit payment.
I have been working this for some months now with a government body and it does work with the right people. The scheme does already exist and at present. as an example I have someone working as a volunteer at at Deal Football club helping maintain the grounds after his 4 weeks with me - he would prefer to do something than nothing for his money. Last week he chose to ring me and ask how I was ( having heard that I had been ill) thats how caring some people can be.
On the other hand not all candidates have the same attitude and one young man lasted half a day - having had it explained to him his duties - he just said that he didn't want to work for nothing. In my view it isn't for nothing as he is still receiving benefit from the state. But somehow benefit is seen as a right without obligation. Needless to say the two who have successfully passed through my hands have been the more mature candidate.
The difficulty of course is to find employers and bodies ready to invest both time and funds to manage this. I did advertise it to the last Mayors business meeting but as far as I am aware we are fairly unique as a small business to take the scheme up. If any business has a wish I would happily advise. It is a cost/risk/involvement but like many things very rewarding when it goes right.
7 November 2010
22:3379019#16
That's the point - it is time to redress that balance and make clear that alongside rights and entitlements there are responsibilities and obligations.
It is good to hear that local people are already rising to this challenge before the conlibs made it sexy. And spot on: the cost/risk/involvement equation has benefits that are not necessarily immediately visible.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
7 November 2010
22:4979020#17
some excellent posts here, david made a valid point about some skivers and genuine people.
i posted on this forum a while back about a chap that i see in town a lot, in his fifties, unemployed for ages.
he was put on a work placement of a month humping heavy furniture around, asked for it to be extended.
now he is on a six month contract, gets no more than the 60 quid a week if he stayed in bed, he insisted to me it was worth it because it meant no more signing on.
food for thought i think.
7 November 2010
23:1779022#18
No jobs =unemployment
No jobs=training
No jobs=restriction of wealth
No jobs =Rise in crime
No job= despair
no jobs=resentment of immigration
no jobs =community unrest
No jobs = a lib/con government
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
7 November 2010
23:4879023#19
It' about time Gov. saw some common sense on the employment scene. I've been proposing all this time and again. People in search of work want to work. Regiments need be formed, in Army-Green uniform, to do these sorts of work. I hope it goes further, and includes marching to the factories and farms, ordering the employers to employ the lads and girls, but... that's where I could get a dressing down! ..so hush!
But, it should also include baracks training, sleeping out at night in tents, cross-country marching, up at seven, and privileges such as free entry to the arena and some luncheon vouchers.
Plenty of marching in hob-nailed boots.
About time New Labour's employment dreams were shattered!
If Gov. goes ahead with it, then
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
7 November 2010
23:5879026#20
Giving those who desperately want jobs, or those who dislike the idea of any work, a chance to improve their self-worth and confidence, and at the same time put back something into the society which is handing them their benefits is to my mind the only way, I agree with Ross's ideas entirely. And if it helps to start them on the road to getting paid jobs or even doing voluntary work until they get into settled jobs, cannot be wrong.
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