Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW
You don't want to be in Europe.
You don't want our port sold off to a foreign company.
So why are you happy with this lot trying to destroy a Great British company?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Bombardier is the last remaining train manufacturer in Britain.
The Southern Franchise contract helps to keep their head above water until 2014.
In 2014 our last train manufacturer will be under theat of closure.
The Thames Link contract which our Government gave to the German Siemens company would have secured their future.
The Governments action `conveniently` embarrassed the previous governments terms and conditions of contract.
The matter was relatively easy to rectify but the Government stubbornly kept to its decision to place the contract into Germanys healthy and thriving train industry
The EU gave the Government a life line to change their ``very suspect``decision.
In these desperate times when a depleted British manufacturing industry needs every contract it can get......................
..................our Government seats on its hands.
The Government deserves a place in the `Buffoons list`
A Select Committee needs to be appointed to investigate the reasons why our Government made the decision in the first place and then ignored the EU opportunity of correcting a major error and mistake.
The Tory propaganda machine has despite a year of `U` turns and incompetence,drastic cuts,sqeezed living standards has achieved the tories to be neck and neck with Labour in the polls.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
A footnote to this is that the Deutsche Bahn direct train services through the Channel Tunnel to Germany - due to start in 2012 - have been put back to at least 2015, the Eurostar call centre told me recently.
The reason: Siemens are going to be late delivering the trains.
Could that perhaps be because they will be busy with the Thameslink contract?
Giving that deal back to Bombardier might do more than just preserve our manufacturing base.
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
Such cynicism Andrew-an excellent view! I always thought that appropriate 'procurement' particularly took delivery capability well into account!
Never give up...
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well now you can see what this cobbled together govt is all about
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I should ask the question why the Javelin trains running on HS1 are made by Hitachi and not Bombardier.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 63.64......delivery date is just one of many reasons that have been used to nullify any contract.....its relatively easy.
# 68..............another reason for a select committee to be appointed.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter.
Of course you could say that or ask that question and much more about losing contracts and business's to overseas companies and I would probably agree with you, somewhat, about who you think is to blame.
Blame though, is not the answer to our problems today; neither is saying, nor doing, things because, others have done it before. That really is playground stuff and not helpful in any way.
This thread is about Bombardier and this Government not giving them the contract that would secure 1000's of British jobs.
Surely a decision should be made out of common sense, instead of playground politics?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I was not contemplating allocating blame Gary, just trying to get to the root of the reasons why buying foreign seems so often to be the option chosen. In other words is it cost, quality or delivery time? Or a combination? Do foreign governments subsidise their train makers?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Again, Back Handers and Greed spring to mind.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think the diplomatic answer would be that most countries would gladly assist their own businesses gain important contracts that bring large volumes of jobs to their shores.
not forgetting the tax paid by the companies and their staff.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
so, whats stopping our cobbled together govbit then?t from doing there
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
As far as I know the Javelin trains were put out to open tender, but required an agreed delivery date in order to meet DoT requirements for commencement of the HS service; the only company able to meet all the contract requirements at an acceptable price were Hitachi. It is worth noting that Hitachi have created a number of maintenance engineering jobs at the HS depot in Ashford.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - Businesses can and should survive and prosper in one way only, by producing goods and/or services that people want and will buy at a price they are able and willing to pay. That is the only way forward for any company including Bombadier. I do not want them to fail, I want them to succeed but success is not achieved and sustained by subsidies. That is a lesson we learned loud and clear in the 70's.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Sometimes though, Barry, the cost to the nation of such a subsidy in the short term, to help a company compete for a contract, will be less than the cost of a major company going under, in terms of benefit payouts and social disruption which would otherwise follow; particularly if a British company is facing subsidised competition. But I'm not saying that lame duck businesses deserve a subsidy.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Peter the problem is that it is like a drug. It provides that short term fix but what next? Another subsidy to win another contract....where does it end, it can end only one way. Better not to go down that route at all and create a subsidy culture in the first place, it was that expectation that was among the causes of the industrial insanity of the 70's where subsidy was expected and it locked in old fashioned restrictive practises.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Ross.
I take your point and that makes sense in the general world of business.
BarryW.
Same as above. That all makes sense
However this post is about Bombardier V Siemens.
Britain is not supporting Bombardier, our last big train manufacturer, that can produce rolling stock, not only for this country but also abroad.
This could result in it closing down with all the known consequences creating a massive disaster for this country.
Germany enabled Siemens to win the state-backed Deutsche Bahn €6bn (£5.4bn) high-speed train contract which in turn enabled it to secure the Thameslink contract that will probably lead to them winning the 2 future rolling stock awards, for the Crossrail and High Speed Two projects.
All that employment, wages, profit, tax and a secure future for Germany has been achieved by Germany supporting their own company, Siemens.
Why is this country not doing the same?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
Get over the 70's for Christ sake;
We are in the new Millennium and if we have not learnt by our mistakes from back then, then we will just go the way of the Dinosaur.
It's not New Year yet.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - The problem is that many people have not learned those lessons as is clear from posts on this thread.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Barry, there is a middle way and sometimes we have to be pragmatic. Adhering to pure Thatcherite ideology is a luxury we can no longer afford.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson