Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
1400 jobs to go, at the Derby works, plus more across the country
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
no surprise keith, our government awarded the thameslink contrast to the german giant "siemens".
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
It is a catastrophic shame that we will lose these skills. They have been building trains in Derby for many many years, its a bedrock of skills in this field..and now we stand to lose all that forever. Tory Minister Hammond said on R4 this morning that they had to go for the lowest quote..they were obliged to do so.
But the europeans play a different game and win. Bit like what we spoke about last week, the Germans got all the Chinese contracts too. Siemens have won through on both these deals and they jkeep beating everyone else. On top of that...French firms always get awarded French contracts, German firms get German contracts and so it goes on, but the same thing does not happen here.
On top of that we sell off all our business to the europeans too, and the americans. We seem to have a very muddled plan of action.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
'Best value' - or whatever the current terminology is - doesn't require the bid to be the lowest as far as I am aware but the most efficient and effective.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
recently bombadier and siemens both tendered for a major contract with deutsche bahn, siemens won of course.
cheapest or best value?
the fact is that the german government would support their own businesses and the jobs that go with it.
ours just wring their hands and allow 1400 workers to go on the dole and all the fall out with other jobs in derby.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Yes indeed. Germany and France know how to defend their market. Airbus have won contracts world-wide, after the German and French governments decided some years ago to favour Airbus in many ways.
These two countries do a lot to endorse their own industry, but here in the UK, it would be called: "unfair competition and state-meddling".
The EU was essentially designed to benefit the economies of Germany and France, we only lose out all the time.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the problem will get worse the government bang on about deregulation yet are strengthening the laws on bribery.
heavy prison terms for individuals caught trying to gain business from oveseas by nefarious means.
everyone knows that in certain countries one has give out "sweeteners" in order get into the market.
doubt if any of our competitors will have the same qualms.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
Another thing to bear in mind is the fact that Bombardier's Star trains, here in Kent the Electrostar and in other places the Turbostar would have a lot of commonality with the new versions thus making spares very easy to come by.
The Siemens City is quite different from their other trains here in the UK, the Siemens Desiro.
Desiros on SouthWest Trains are not loved by the travelling public by the way.
A bad move.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Bombardier lost a train contract to Siemans of Germany.Initially 2000 will lose their jobs but effect on support industries will mean 10,000 job loses.Ian Duncan-smith campaign `Jobs for Btitish workers has fallen on deaf ears.Cheapest price wins.Holistic thinking loses.A case of knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing?In need of a `U` turn!!
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
I will applaud a U turn on this one, sheer lunacy to think putting thousands of people out work is the correct decision and I fail to see how getting the trains from Germany is cheaper when you factor in the loss of wages , the benefits that will be paid out and the devastation to peoples lives.
Audere est facere.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
Whilst I hate to see British workers in a British factory lose their jobs we all ought to remember that Bombardier are in fact a Canadian corporation albeit now global in reach - started in 1937 by Joseph-Armand Bombardier selling 7 seater snowmobiles in Quebec.
The history of their rail manufacturing business is as follows
1974 following the fuel crisis they utilise spare manufacturing capacity to successfully compete to build stock for the Montreal Metro
In 1986 it acquired a 45% stake in the Belgian manufacturer BN Constructions Ferroviaires et Métalliques S.A.
In 1989 they acquire ANF-Industrie, France's second largest manufacturer of railway equipment.
In 1990, they enter the U.K. market for the first time, acquiring Procor Engineering Limited. Then in 1992, they acquire Mexican rolling stock manufacturer Constructura Nacional de Carros de Ferrocarril.
In the latter half of the 1990s they acquire Waggonfabrik Talbot GmbH & Co. and Deutsche Waggonbau AG (DWA).
In 2001 Bombardier acquires Germany-based DaimlerChrysler AG's subsidiary DaimlerChrysler Rail Systems GmbH (Adtranz).
In 2002 they move their global rail manufacturing business headquarters to Berlin.
They have also worked with Siemans on various projects most noticeably the ICE3 generation of High Speed intercity trains that form the backbone of the German ICE network
(Source Bombardier web site)
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the jobs were here in the u.k. though, if they work with siemens it is not over here.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
Not forgetting all those who are not directly employed by Bombardier but all those who provide a service and supply goods, e.g. food suppliers and other local service industries. Economic impact stretches beyond the immediate employees and their families. Shame.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
MARTIN P;
I think your right on this one, the cost of putting so many people on the dole must be born in mind .
Other countries such as Germany and France, would never allow this to happen to there country folk.
So is putting all these guys on the dole realy the cheapest option
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
What amazes me is that the government are forever banging on about us,the common man,buying British and supporting our local High St shops, yet when the opportunity presents itself for them to lead by example they fail to deliver.
I don't know the in's and out's of the tender or why the government rejected Bombardiers tender but I do know what the effect will be on the future of the workers and the type of message this sends out.
British public Goodwill is costly and the Tories have just thrown one helluva lot of it out the window.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
nothing much changes, i remember gordon with his "british jobs for british people" sound bite, now it is the old etonians playing the same record knowing full well that they have no interest in the people they are partially elected to represent.
other countries outside of the third world look out for their own people, why cannot our leaders?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
They will argue that there is a law on fair trade that does not allow for the location of the tendering manufacturers to be taken into account.
There is also a carbon footprint law that requires that this be taken into account!
How much transport will be needed to get the carriages over to Britain? How much more fuel will be converted into destructive gas emissions?
Too many people in a position of authority who are supposed to put forward arguments are sleeping, but are being paid a salary. I do not exclude that Bombardier could make a case to appeal against the decision.
A few years back, a very interesting case went to court between Boeing and Airbus regards a super-contract for the US Air Force.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
It was almost laughable to see Transport Minister Philip Hammond squirming on about procurement all day yesterday on various TV stations. None of us really knows what it means..smokecreening going on here.
He mentioned the word 'procurement' many times in his Newsnight interview last night..I should have counted the amount of times. But really what it relates to is that their hands were tied into something they didnt want to do ( at a push they will probably blame the previous Labour Government), but they will look at the procurement options in future business dealings. Sounds like a lot of spinning to me...and everyone else.
