Guest 1168- Registered: 21 Jan 2014
- Posts: 18
Good afternoon all.
The petition continues to gain traction with over 440 on line signatures and many more via the paper petition. Copies of the petition document are in Ann and Pam's florist in Cherry Tree, The Accommodation Shop in Worthington St., Macari's Cafe in Pencester Road, The Bull Public House in London Road, The Boar's Head Public House in Eaton Road, The Craft Shop in the Charlton Centre and GoodFillas sandwich bar in Cannon St. . There will be many more locations added this week. Thank-you to all of those establishments for your excellent support.
We have detected an unfortunate failing on the DDC petition web-site, having noticed that very often only 1 person is signing per house-hold. The software does not allow multiple signatures from the same computer unless you re-boot. I hope no-one has been disenfranchised by this error.
Whilst not complacent, we remain confident that this petition will have the desired effect of prising open the obvious barriers to proper and appropriate communication from DDC.
Some councillors may of course attempt to stifle democracy but the clear resolve of almost everyone we speak to is to achieve change to the status-quo.
Naturally, if someone tells me and the residents of this district exactly why this petition is jeopardising the DTIZ and their reasoning is sound, I will react appropriately. Thus far, however, no such facts have been offered.
Regards, Alan Shirley
Alan Shirley
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
more of an online thing than problems with ddc website software, websites that have opinion polls usually only accept one vote per computer to stop multiple voting.
in most modern households people have phones to use to vote individually and as stated above there are loads of outlets in town for those not into the virtual world.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Thank You Alan - obviously you feel that none of the reasons I have put forward, have been sound. I can only reiterate my previous postings, but won't repeat them.
I have no problem with what you want to do, just the timing of it.
Roger
Guest 1168- Registered: 21 Jan 2014
- Posts: 18
Re post 122, interested that you Mr. McSweeney have so much knowledge of ICT. I only have 40 years experience in that field at the highest level so please excuse my lack of competence. It is usual for registration processes to allow one registration per unique email address when that address is accompanied by a full name and address. The DDC software (not developed by themselves but a generic package) does not allow multiple registrations from the same IP address until a re-boot is effected. This is an un-necessary fault and could easily be rectified by a competent system developer. Their system clearly relies on a unique IP address. We have received a number of advices of this error from people wishing to sign. Additionally, your assertion regarding the demographics of households is either very well researched, or is totally contrived to add value to your opinion. It seems our views of enfranchisement differ. Ofcom research.
73% of adults do not have a smart phone.
53% of teenagers do not have a smart phone.
Re post 123. Roger, you haven't provided any reason. You have stated that the timing is bad and may jeopardise the project. That is pure supposition on your part and not a reason. I want someone who knows precisely why I should withdraw this petition to give me a reason so to do. So, if you are you the official spokesman for DDC on this matter, please give me a reason, or are you seeking to rebut the petition because in your view the timing is bad? Please don't confuse a statement of your views with a reason. I therefore would like to ask: ]when will it be a good time to have a public meeting, and will the Council call such a meeting without being petitioned to do so?
You and your colleagues Roger, elected and appointed, have not achieved a fraction of the inwards investment visible at all of our neighbouring districts, and 10 years later are uncomfortable with being called to account. That is my reason for raising a petition. A considered demographic piece of research based upon factual evidence.
Alan Shirley
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
Alan, I do enjoy reading your interesting posts.
I do not have a smart phone and some of my friends do not even have a mobile, luckily I do have a computer (again unlike some) and have voted.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 1168- Registered: 21 Jan 2014
- Posts: 18
Very kind of you to say so Jan,
Regards,
Alan.
Alan Shirley
Guest 1168- Registered: 21 Jan 2014
- Posts: 18
Very kind of you to say so Jan,
Regards,
Alan.
Alan Shirley
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Thanks Alan
"Re post 123. Roger, you haven't provided any reason. You have stated that the timing is bad and may jeopardise the project. That is pure supposition on your part and not a reason".
It may be supposition Alan, but isn't your view also supposition - that you do not think it may endanger the progress and further inward investment ?
As I'm sure you know, it is now being brought to Scrutiny and the public can attend these meetings and ask those questions where you would receive all the answers you require, but in an orderly meeting.
"I want someone who knows precisely why I should withdraw this petition to give me a reason so to do. So, if you are you the official spokesman for DDC on this matter, please give me a reason, or are you seeking to rebut the petition because in your view the timing is bad?"
As you know, I am not the official spokesman for DDC on this or any other matter. I am purely saying that the petition is an unnecessary way to determine the answers you seek and yes, the timing is not (to my mind), the best. Why not request to speak at the relevant Scrutiny meeting ?
"Please don't confuse a statement of your views with a reason. I therefore would like to ask: ]when will it be a good time to have a public meeting, and will the Council call such a meeting without being petitioned to do so ?"
I don't think that a public meeting with a free-for-all agenda will achieve very much at all.
"You and your colleagues Roger, elected and appointed, have not achieved a fraction of the inwards investment visible at all of our neighbouring districts, and 10 years later are uncomfortable with being called to account. That is my reason for raising a petition. A considered demographic piece of research based upon factual evidence".
I beg to differ Alan, there is much inward investment across the District and DDC is more than just Dover Town. As much as I love Dover, my adopted home, we (DDC) have brought and encouraged investment across the District with great success.
Any delay in DTIZ is not because of delays and incompetance by officers or councillors. At every stage of DTIZ, it has been approved by both sides of the Council.
Land-ownership, refusal to sell etc. have been delaying tactics and now that the CPO is with the Home and Communities Agency, it will be gone through with a fine-tooth comb to make sure it is water tight, then it will be advertised for those directly connected/affected, to make their views/objections known.
Roger
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I go along with most of what Mr Walkden has wrote.And the timing is very very bad and will not help in anyway,why did you not do it years ago? why did you wait till now when the building is about to take off?I think there is more to this then meets the eye Mr shirley,so why not come out and tell us all.? It might be because it is election time,and without saying you are backing a party and want the blues out.Come on tell us what it is?
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
When it comes to petitions - in the case of a submission in a consultation process, petitions are not really up to much, individual submissions are far more powerful. However, the petition currently in progress serves a direct purpose in and of itself in that on reaching a given number of signatures a meeting is triggered. Despite the frequent protestations of openness and accountability by our District Council, it is nigh impossible for us, the electorate, to actually hold them to account. Yes, as individuals, we are welcome to write to or visit the offices, officers and councillors, but as individuals our communications are not public and/or we don't have the right supplementary questions to hand to obtain answers that are fully satisfactory and at scrutiny meetings, public input is quite restrictive; for example some, even within the Council, have given the impression that investment and development plans in the area known as the DTIZ date back only a few years, Ray has highlighted that he is aware of matters raised in this regard much earlier and, talking with my Mum last night, there are even unrealised plans for this area that pre-date my birth. So, information regarding plans and expenditure to date are, at best, publicly obscure - they need to be made clear in the most public way possible. Then we come to accountability - hmm - through the ballot box on the council leadership and cabinet is, for most of us, near impossible - safe seats (for one tribal colour or another) and all that sort of stuff more or less ensures that direct accountability to the constituents of the District for the main decision makers in the council is, at best, difficult to achieve.
From a personal point of view then, and to achieve both visibility and accountability for what has (or has not) been delivered to date, I strongly support this petition and really hope that the DDC will not just wait it out until the trigger number of signatures is reached, but will take the earliest chance to embrace the opportunity to not only be seen to be, but actually be straight with us all in a multi-party open forum.
Roger, I appreciate your candour and your point of view, but there are a great many Dovorians, both in and out of town, who share in Alan's point of view and additionally feel neither informed or enfranchised in regard to key developments within their home town. Fulfillment of this petition could be a turning point to the mutual benefit of constituents and council.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
How many years must it take, and how much money should be spent on the total non event that is the DTIZ ?
Get the leaders at DDC to answer that question and the public meeting would hardly be needed. Keep it all locked behind closed doors and the number of signatures will grow and grow as the people start to think that maybe something sinister has been going on...
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I agree what the above post is saying but things are on the move now, after some 40years,do you realy want to put anything it its way that might stop that?,I for one do not there is nothing to gain from a meeting at this very time,if it does not go ahead this time then yes go ahead with it and I will be the first person to get up in the Town hall asking what has happen not only this time but over the last 40years.It the time to wait and see.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I have loged into that and wrote what I was thinking.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
I'm not sure what I read ther Howard. Does it mean that DDC will not call their own meeting, but will be obliged to if the petition reaches the right number, or does it mean that there will be no meeting at all ?
I think it means the first, but I'm not sure.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i read that as a clear no the meeting barrie.
it doesn't say who the spokesperson was, i think they are trying to put it across that they spoke to watty by putting up that old library photo of him.
Guest 756- Registered: 6 Jun 2012
- Posts: 727
I would remind constituents that they do have the option to lobby their elected councillors, they are after all supposed to represent their communities. Call for a meeting with them, make sure you have a written detail report of your requests and if possible minute your meeting with them. Then attend the next council meeting and see if your item is addressed.
Guest 1168- Registered: 21 Jan 2014
- Posts: 18
Good afternoon everyone. I refer to the headline on Kent on-line and comment as follows:
If the spokesman for DDC is in fact speaking for that individual who likes to be addressed as "the leader", then I am saddened that someone in such a high public office holds such a contemptuous view of the electorate. In a response to him and others like him I say this... The petition will continue, please everyone re-double your efforts to encourage more people to sign. Do not be dissuaded from challenging this haughty and ignorant regime by thinking that their tokenism to public debate, the so-called scrutiny process, is acceptable. Do not be influenced by those who seek to curtail openness through their own bigoted views.
I will shortly be advising of a petition signing opportunity in Dover High Street that will take place within a week or so. I intend to be present at that process throughout the day and to seek not 1600 signatures but many more. This Council elite is truly unacceptable. Shame on them. To the good people of St.Margarets Bay who have voted for this individual in the past, please reflect on his actions to oppose public demand and on the progress that, under his stewardship, has been made on the St.James development over his 30 years as a councillor and 10 as "leader" when next you vote.
Alan Shirley
Guest 1168- Registered: 21 Jan 2014
- Posts: 18
Late news:
The petition has been signed by our MP, Mr.Charlie Elphicke. My thanks and respects to you Charlie. It has also been signed by the prospective parliamentary candidates for the Liberal Democrats and UKIP. Thanks for your support Sarah and David. Claire Hawkins, the prospective parliamentary candidate for the Labour Party has voiced her support through the Dover for Dovorians Facebook site. Thanks Claire.
Alan Shirley
Guest 1168- Registered: 21 Jan 2014
- Posts: 18
We are getting excellent responses to the paper petition.
I will update the numbers as soon as I have all current forms returned. One example, in one hour one supporter attracted 26 signatures on a cold and rainy day.
If you value democracy, please sign and encourage others not to be bullied into submission by the few.
Alan Shirley