Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
I am still waiting for some reaslistic alternatives.....
- No-one is going to give the millions of £ that the Heights needs
- There are no rich philathropists that are doing to die and give all their money to Dover
- English Heritage had no money
- Dover District Council has no money
Who is going to regenerate Dover or any other town ?? It is private money always !!
If developers are to build on the Heights and Farthingloe it WILL give money to the Heights, it will be a condition, if it doesn't then I'll be tying myself to the railings to stop it and so will a lot of people
There are a lot of resident that are excited about developments, it is riddles with antisocial behavious, rubbish dumping, and if nothing is done to try and protect the Heritage then it will only get worse.
So what are the alternative to regenerate Dover and save our heritage and get Dover to thrive?? Do people actually not want it to?? Even if you don't like it all, why not work with it to make it happen right??
Brad
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Well said Paul, and if the promises that have been made are not delivered I will be badgering non stop until they are. Thank you Sarah P for your kind words.
The architect behind the proposed memorial, John Pegg, has just won another award and is still devoting his time to fighting for a project that could do so much for us and the memories of two world wars that some would try and diminish while others wish to forget (not to mention some extremist groups on the right who would wish to repeat.).
I did struggle through post 89 but can only assume that Alexander has not read more than he wanted to in any of the previous responses and is dreaming of some communist utopia where shop keepers give away their stock and everyone meets up once a week to share out their cash. Not trying to be rude here, but did anyone make any sense of it?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Just to add that I have today been for a meeting with the Head of Inward Investment at DDC to look at the 'bigger picture' and how the Heights fit into it, as a representative of the Western Heights Preservation Society. The 'official' view of the WHPS is generally known but we will circulate officially that is due course.
Hopefully the below map that I have been given the OK to circulate, as it is in the public domain, will help assist the discussion.
Here is a link to the full size image that will hopefully work:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7204/7090629927_db155f3ac8_o.jpgBeen nice knowing you :)
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
paul,i can agree with you.i have all so meet john pegg at the dtc offices a few years ago.
the war memorial i agee with totaly.
the hotel/conferance center not to sure about.
as for the housing i agree with lara.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,225
Brian, the point about housing is very simple, less housing less sec.106/CIL money applied to Heritage protection & enhancement.
That really is the bottom line.
Watty
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Hopefully this will make clear to all where the housing goes and where the hotel goes, in relation to the Western Heights. While I am still against the cable car (today's winds alone should be a good indication of how often it would be unworkable and there are better ideas that would have a better result for Dover) and am sure that. as currently proposed, the St. James (DTIZ) plans would do more harm than good (who is going to get a park and ride to a car park and who will fill the large shops in the High Street when they move to the DTIZ?) this does at least show some of the areas that are well thought out. Of course it is telling that those areas are those under private development.
As Paul says there is no money from the government or DDC with which to regenerate Dover and we do desperately need a lot of regeneration. The empty houses mentioned by another poster are unlikely to be bought back into use any time soon while there are V.A.T. refunds for new build but not for refurbishment. It should be noted that DTC is leading the way in an initiative to "encourage" the owners to ensure that the outsides are kept in good condition or brought up to standard. A similar initiative in Hastings has been very successful.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Excellant posts from PaulW, Paul (Scotchie) and Chris P.
Alexander, I have not predetermined the Western Heights regeneration and even if I had a leaning towards any development there, it doesn't mean to say it will go ahead.
Roger
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris.
With regards to post 102:
"is dreaming of some communist utopia where shop keepers give away their stock and everyone meets up once a week to share out their cash. Not trying to be rude here..."
Contrary to your statement, I have read every word on this thread prior to responding, except when reading to the end your post 102, which is a sheer distortion.
Your above quoted words are false!
The promises made on this thread about this proposed war memorial of yours and repeatedly for other projects concerning Dover in the past by you and a few councillors of DDC, give one the impression that the cash that is supposed to be spent in private shops is to bring "prosperity" to Dover, as if it were to be distributed equally to the public,
I have always rejected these ideas, and now you have turned everything around 100% and accused me of exactly that which people like you and a few others have been trying to make us believe with your arguments
I also reject your claim that I am trying to diminish the memory of people who died in the two World Wars.
Chris, if this is your way of twisting the facts, I say enough.
What you have stated above is wanton untruth, and it only deepens my total disgust for politics!
You have twisted my words around completely and accused me of various things I have never stated in any post or in any posting of mine on the internet.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
...............would the shops distribute this money to the residents. No!
We have had the Saturday market project, that promised mass "footfall" to Dover, and again the argument, that these many people abandoning shops elsewhere in Dover District, and possible neighbouring districts, would invest great sums in local shops by way of shopping.
The idea being, the shops would then hand this money out equally to all residents?.......... from post 89
Sorry Alexander but just responding to your words.
Greater spending in our shops, pubs, cafe's and restaurants ensures them staying open, and encourages more to open. More businesses surviving, and even thriving, in the town means more jobs and more jobs means more locals with money to spend in the town. Much as I hate cliches......"it ain't rocket science".
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris.
You know full well that my words there are exactly what one imagines a few people who are councillors are always trying to tell us when they claim cash spent in private shops will bring economic whatever boom or prosperity.
Private cash spent in shops is NEVER distributed to the town residents.
I have never claimed that it should be. You know this full well, as I deem you to be an intelligent person.
Hence, it is impossible to understand how mass urbanisation of Dover's Green Areas, Whitfield, Western Heights, by private families, will bring economic advantage to Dover's existing residents.
As stated in the past, it not only does NOT do this, it means taking away our green areas, taking away our job opportunities, over-crowding our town and suburbs with settlers.
Also, my argument has been, and remains, that free market regulation allows people to choose of their own free will if they wish to move to Dover, or open a shop here, and there are many hundreds of empty houses in our town.
DDC state imposed settlements and DDC state imposed shopping projects to attract new residents and shoppers in mass to Dover are more in line with communism, and seem to override the free market and free choice system.
These DDC schemes could cause the loss of business to shops in areas near Dover as a consequence. It could lead to a complaint by shop owners elsewhere against DDC for interfering in free market regulation.
So much to the "footfall" projects of DDC to attract all East Kent's shoppers to Dover.
The same applies to the war monument. Trying to attract all Britain to Dover to a one-off war memorial is the same as closing down all existing war memorials, and certainly implies congesting Dover with more traffic. The more cash you would receive from such a memorial, the more cars would have to come hooping and steaming through congested and polluted Dover.
To build hundreds of houses to boot on the Western Heights, only adds to the sheer ubelievability (perhaps this word does not exist) of claiming to "preserve" a - rather limited- Heritage area.
In the past, I've stated on the Forum that DDC should apply their administration and their proposals to Dover District's residents, as is BY LAW their duty, and stop trying to do a service for people who do not live here but who they believe should come over and settle here. This latter, sacrificing Dover town and District and our interests - in a sheer undemocratic fashion (see Whitfield, Sholden) - to the benefit of people who do not live here but who they want to settle down here, is NOT their duty.
You are making me repeat myself many times on the same thread, by turning the sense of my words to the precise opposite meaning. Of-course your followers will now join in and say how I repeat myself to their boredom. Well done!
Finally, the proposal of a monument of sorts to either sailors from centuries past who are FORGOTTEN and celebrated nowhere, or to the inhabitants of Western Heights who all died of the Plague in the 14th century, is a decent proposal, it is not an attempt to diminish the memory of fallen soldiers, airmen and seamen of the two World Wars. Such a monument, as I contemplate it, would have spiritual value, would need be object first of public consultation, and could not be contemplated as a means of cashing in money.
But I see that when you find a different view to an undemocratic decision of DDC, you will try to twist the words around. I see that you insist on this argument, despite my previous post.
Would it be possible for you not to continue to do so, at least now that I have clarified my points the umpteenth time?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I see your little group of followers have praised you, Paul!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
it seems that alex is open season on this one from some, doesn't look good for anyone looking in and thinking of joining.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Alex - I am still failing to understand why you think successful restaurants, shops, businesses, services, tourist attraction, building projects, etc won't benefit the people of Dover
They are the ones that will work in the town, will own the businesses, service hotels and businesses, work in the museums, will spend their money in Dover rather than Westwood or Canterbury, will go into town in lunch breaks to spend their money. They are the ones that could benefit from capturing the market from the 16 million people that pass through the dock or tourists on cruise liners that would usually head up to London
Still - where are your suggestions about how the situation in Dover could improve - without regeneration projects it will go down hill very quickly ??!!
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Paul is right Alex, you can't expect something preserved in aspic to thrive; as long as developments are designed to respect their historic surroundings they will benefit the town and its people.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson