Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Post 1578
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#1579 - well done Alexander - exactly what we have been telling you since page one of this 'discussion';
Office for National Statistics ?
Home Office?
Met Office?
Empty office at the top of the Shard?
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Offices of the Official Monster Raving Loony Party?
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 750- Registered: 12 Apr 2012
- Posts: 72
Paul, firstly I apologise if this has already been asked I have not been on here for a while as there frankly seemed little point as nothing has moved towards a collaborative meeting, will there be representation from EH,DDC,DTC,CGI and other interested organisations at your meeting or will it purely be WHPS? Shame you did not organise this kind of meeting a long time ago to self promote.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
http://www.doverforum.com/letters/viewtopic.php?id=10914
Attendees from the organisation you have mentioned have been invited and hopefully they will attend. CGI haven't been invited as I don't want this to turning into a slanging match.
The meeting is merely to get various interested parties together and up to date with what WHPS have done and are hoping to do it the future. Alexander isn't interested because he wants to wait for DDC's planning decision, but the work stills go on regardless and I want people to meet and see what is happening and how they can work together.
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
PS - when people have full time jobs and the work on the Heights itself is nearly another job, time is limited. WHPS had a social event earlier in the year which was publicised here and other places, and committee/members have been out and about quite a lot this year with mobile displays at events. There have been 2 open weekend a year for the last couple of years and the Grand Shaft open on a dozen dates this year. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that people do not appeciate.
It's a shame more can't be done, but there are only so many hours in the day !!
Been nice knowing you :)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,571
I thin like jan time to put in my two penneth again.
the forum thankfully is made up of a varied viewpoints from many different posters,
i have tried to help the thread along by trying to get some facts/ideas from those having outright opposition with no flexibility, to find out where all the dosh is coming from to pay for evn part of alexanders ideas.
like other posters, does it realy matter who did what in the past, we should not be here for brownie points, if thats the case i could fill the forum every day and bore you all to tears, but i prefer to encourage others to post and give there views.
I make one small point(whilst taking on board paul scotchies views) that no one has a right to say because iv been here years my way isthe right way and the only way, this goes for those in favour/.against/or still making there minds up.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Several points have been brought up since my posting of yesterday, all of which I will attempt to answer.
First Jan Higgins #1573, who states that what 'happened in the past is really not pertinent to this discussion what is likely to happen in the future is.' This, statement, as I am sure you are aware is one favoured by potential dictators following revolutions.
In fact, it was also a statement made by a number of DDC's councillors as piles were being rammed through the unique, north of the Alps, Roman remains to build the White Cliffs Animatronics Experience. Barry Williams, I am sure, will remember the counter statement issued by DDC in order to try and abate national disgust at DDC's actions - to remind you Barry, it was printed on posters everywhere.
Neil Wiggins #1552 rightly states that 'EH have left the heights largely abandoned and allowed them to decay with ONLY WHPS doing anything significant to arrest the decline. I think I'd feel abandoned by the landlord as well.
On 12 July 2012 - 7:47am #1121 I pointed out that I saw a way forward from EH press release when they said:
'We believe that the Western Heights has enormous potential to contribute to the local economy and have pledged to work with Dover District Council and other partners in harnessing this potential which is one of the council's key objectives.'
Now we should, as a town, hold them to it ... even old ladies like myself can do our bit!
Although I received support from Howard, Lara, Mike Green and Keith Sansum my proposal was quickly countered by Paul Wells (aka Scotchie), Chris Precious and Jan Higgins. Indeed, Paul Wells went on to say that the WHPS had a positive relationship with EH, that they did not wish to undermine and subsequently made it clear what he thought of my stance - he was not positive in his claims.
A good chance MISSED of people who care for the WHOLE of Western Heights as a National Ancient Monument to pull together and force the landlords (EH) to do what was agreed prior to the setting up of the WHPS by EH.
Brian Dixon #1575 asks why there should be a legal review on DDC.
In accordance the National Planning Policy Framework (NPPF) and planning legislation, this application should be determined in accordance with the provisions of the adopted development plan. DDC's Council's adopted Core Strategy (February 2010) that should therefore form the basis of the decision on the application.
The application site is neither allocated for development in the Core Strategy as a strategic site nor is it identified in the Core Strategy as a location where there is potential for urban expansion. It is not a site that is recognised in the Core Strategy as having any role to play in meeting the growth strategy of the Core Strategy. In fact, the sites were considered through the Strategic Housing Land Availability Assessment process and were rejected primarily because of their environmental impact.
In consequence, the amended Proposals Map places the application site entirely outside of the urban confines, in the countryside. Thus, the proposal does not comply with policies CP2, CP6, DM1, DM11, DM15, DM16 and DM17 and contradicts Policy DM5 in relation to the provision of affordable housing.
Does that answer your question Brian?
Lorraine
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
As I am now being compared to a dictator because I dared to say that past personal squabbles were not pertinent I think it is time to stop posting on this thread.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#1588 - "potential dictators"
Certainly not a way to win friends and influence people.....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
Jan, I agree with what you said in #1573, I stopped posting on this thread a few weeks ago as it was just going round in circles and with the exception of 2 or 3 lone voices who know what they are talking about regarding the present situation it is going knowhere.
(and with this thread and the Olympics tempting me to a red card I have had a week of self-imposed posting purdah!
)
I think you are owed an apology for that comment.
Guest 761- Registered: 10 Jul 2012
- Posts: 115
I was recently sent this, something worth being aware of, particularly if a company were to sell shares in the overall project rather than parcel the land off - just to give it more legitamacy. The directors of a large UK company have had their assets siezed this week for exactly this:
Commercial Property News
Land Banking Investment Schemes - Don't be scammed. Tania Coventry
Land Banking is a means of investing in land whereby land is purchased with the intention of keeping it until it can be sold at significant profit. Generally the land is purchased in anticipation of being able acquire planning permission.
As the credit crunch bites people may be tempted to plough cash into these schemes lured by slick advertising campaigns offering big returns on their money. However, be warned, many people have already handed over thousand of pounds for land that has little or no chance of being developed.
How does it work?
The Land Banking Company will generally buy the target land, which is frequently located in green belt or undeveloped areas protected from development by planning law. Alternatively, they may buy agricultural land where no development will be permitted. As the land has little development potential it is likely to be bought by the Company at a low price.
The land will then be divided into small plots. Sometimes you will see paint or poles on fields, which appear to divide the fields into plots, and this is a sign that it has been bought by a Land Banking Company. Such a scheme is often termed "a plot land development scheme".
The plots will then be offered for sale to the general public, frequently via the internet. A Land Banking Company may promote the land with the following:
•Claims that it is likely that restrictions on development will be lifted, and once planning permission is obtained, the plot will have a higher market value and can be sold at a substantial profit; and / or
•Offers to handle the planning application process.
The risk?
There are many risks associated with these schemes. However, the following key issues should be brought to the public's attention:
•Misrepresentation - There are many reported cases where investors have been lured into the scheme as a result of claims made by a Land Banking Company which are simply untrue. For instance they may mislead about the prospects of obtaining planning permission, or redevelopment, and in turn the investor is misled into believing that they may have the opportunity to sell the land to a developer at a substantial profit. The extent of the misrepresentation has varied, however, in extreme cases forged documents have been produced, including purported letters from the Land Registry suggesting the land has "official Land Registry planning approval". However, the Land Registry plays no part in the planning process and could not give such approval. Further to this a Land Banking Company may incorrectly state that they have well known banks and developers as partners to the scheme.
•Regulation - Land Banking Companies are often unregulated meaning that investors money is not protected if things go wrong. In some circumstances a land banking investment scheme may be classed as a Collective Investment Scheme and the operators of these schemes must be authorised by the Financial Services Authority (FSA). If they are not correctly authorised the FSA can pursue them. The FSA strongly advises that anyone who has been approached by an operator of a land banking investment scheme should contact the FSA consumer helpline (0845 606 1234) to discuss the scheme.
•Fencing and Neglect - Land bought frequently becomes neglected and the land then becomes unsightly. In many circumstances the local authorities can do little to remedy the situation and in the mean time the land can become a major issue to the owners of neighbouring land.
Guest 764- Registered: 27 Jul 2012
- Posts: 82
Morning all.
So. Who has a good idea about how to preserve the Western Heights for the future !
Guest 761- Registered: 10 Jul 2012
- Posts: 115
Morning Jeff,
Paul seemed a little concerned a few pages ago about another group being set up by the Heights Residents - i dont think he needs to be, there has been a heights residents association before and they will be mainly concerned with their area - the interior. WHPS, Braddon residents, and all other groups concerened working TOGETHER to encourage English Heritage and DDC to make good on their pledges has to be a positive approach. Do you think WHPS meeting next week will be a good springboard for that?
Guest 764- Registered: 27 Jul 2012
- Posts: 82
Mike.
I think the meeting is a good idea. We should all be working together to ensure the Heights has a future. To date, that has been uncertain.
I think problems will arise when groups with a common cause have differing views on how to carry that forward. There seem to be two camps: 'Let's see if CGI can help us' and 'no way, hose !' This is where a tension is going to be.
Hopefully the meeting will be 'cards on the table' by everyone for everyone and that we can all keep it civilized enough to work together. There will be problems at the first step though if the radical voices here start trying to throw their weight about.
I guess I need to reiterate that the above is Jeff's view, and not that of the WHPS !
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Here's a radical idea....
You set up a charitable group which aims to preserve the Heights under no illusions that it is going to be an easy task and that you are in it for the long haul
You build up trust with the authorities like Dover Distrct Council and English Heritage by carrying out volunteer tasks and proving that there is a demand for the heritage and that it can be successfully opened.
Though this limited success you raise the profile of the Height so it can no longer be hidden below the radar and people start to realise their responsibilities
Over time you build a reasonable fighting fund so that you can carry out larger higher profile projects, but also to be able to eventually be able to have enough money to be able to employ specialist expertise that can build project plans and applications to open up larger funding opportunities.
In the meantime the authorities create documents like Heritage Strategies and Conservation Plans that can also be used as leverage towards funding applications.
People then realise that a long standing charitable body is key to be able to open up grants like Heritage Lottery Grants in a way that the local authority and English Heritage cannot, as their hands are less tied and more can be done with the money it receives.
Though increased opening of the heritage and building up funds, and slowly unlocking larger funding opportunities, the Heights eventually are a major tourist attraction in Dover complimenting Dover Castle and securing it's future for another 200 years.....
Hmmmm..... sounds familar.... !!!
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 764- Registered: 27 Jul 2012
- Posts: 82
By God, you know, I think he may be on to something.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Re - #1594
Mike I have no problems with a revamped residents associated as I have mentioned before. WHPS can do the heritage bit, WCCP can do the nature, and the residents do community bits, but all can work in conjunction with each other and help each other out. (My only concern is people stepping on other groups toes with grand ideas that their way is better and they should move out of the way)
CGI or no CGI there is still a lot that can and will be done so getting interested parties into one arena, talking civilly, openly and on a level is surely a good thing?
Been nice knowing you :)
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
lorraine,in a word no.
farthinglow or part of it is a brown field site,and i did read the planning notice on the lampost and it dosent seem to extreame to me.as a matter of fact it seems the opissit.on saying that the proposed site it mentions is well back from the road view so wouldnt be an eyesore.and futher more the channel tunnel got planning permission to build tempory dewellings there with futher planning permission to build more perinante strutures there if it was needed.as for the western hieghts a few more houes wouldnt make much differant.
Guest 761- Registered: 10 Jul 2012
- Posts: 115
Hasn't this thread taken a positive turn - Please no one spoil it! Paul - you will have to come up with a suitable name for this charitable group...