Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
I understand why Starmer is saying there will be little change as he wants to get Labour elected, something that wont happen if they espouse what might be perceived to be radical policies.
This is a result of what is called the Overton Window, as the Tories moved further to the right the opposition parties are also obliged to move that direction to continue to be seen to be electable.
The real problem is Starmer; as many of us do not believe he will change once elected & he will continue with his controlling, centrist, establishment policies etc.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
This holding pattern we are in comes to an end with the launch of the manifestos. Let's see what a Keir Starmer Labour government would offer. If it's fairly centrist, and he gets a thumping majority - you have your Brexit argument all over again - it's what the people wanted. If he gets a smaller, working majority, he might have to reach out to the left a little more.
All my assumptions are based on a staged approach: stage one gets you elected, stage two implements your vision.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,928
That's a dream Neil .
Even I feel Labour will get elected, not because many have any more faith in Starmer than Tories , but just because Tories are so unpopular .
At least in the main Ross agrees we are unlikely to see that much change even under Starmer
Which brings me back to, so why then vote Labour ?.
I think Starmer has burnt his bridges with many on the left , causing some to set up alternative parties , whilst probably not doing to much damage , could see a few elected in safer Labour seats with apathy so big.
I feel people are no more enthused by Starmer than they are the Tories .
Not a good ticket to be elected on.
Of course Starmer still does have that hurdle to get over
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Neil Moors wrote:My true thoughts, at this point, extend only to Labour replacing the Tories. Like you, I have an ideological perspective but am also pragmatic enough to understand that we won't see sweeping changes overnight. Labour has been honest about that. As an absolute minimum, it will be pleasing to see the end of Tory cronyism and the advancement of their various donors and sponsors. A level playing field will return.
I rather thought that, having given your true thoughts as requested, the repetition of the anti-Starmer view of life would nevertheless continue, to show you how wrong you are to have them! This topic is actually Ray's 'Tory party in turmoil', which I guess only goes to show that WGS is correct to say the two main parties are one and the same.
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(Not my real name.)
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
I often forget the heading to the thread! You're right, Button, only one party is in turmoil and it isn't Labour.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,879
Neil Moors wrote:I often forget the heading to the thread! You're right, Button, only one party is in turmoil and it isn't Labour.
At the moment, just wait until after the next GE.
The silly infighting will start up again that is what far to many politicians past and present seem to survive on, never mind who the far more important voters have chosen.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,928
Underestimating what's going on could be your dream not come true Neil.
Labour isn't for workers .
What's incredible is this Govt is as unpopular as Maggie was .
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
More of the same band of liars and incompetent sycophants.....
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,879
Keith Sansum1 wrote: Labour isn't for workers ..
What an old fashioned statement. The image of the cloth capped uneducated worker are long gone, a Labour supporter nowadays can be anyone be they labourer or management or even from the nobility, just the same as a Tory.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
ray hutstone wrote:More of the same band of liars and incompetent sycophants.....
I don't seek to imperil your slumbers, but:
"Rishi Sunak has promoted cabinet veteran Grant Shapps to the role of defence secretary in a mini reshuffle of his top team. Mr Shapps, who has held five ministerial jobs in the past year, replaces Ben Wallace, who is leaving politics at the next election. His appointment was not widely expected but he is seen as safe pair of hands and an effective communicator. "
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66668941(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Button wrote:I don't seek to imperil your slumbers, but:
"Rishi Sunak has promoted cabinet veteran Grant Shapps to the role of defence secretary in a mini reshuffle of his top team. Mr Shapps, who has held five ministerial jobs in the past year, replaces Ben Wallace, who is leaving politics at the next election. His appointment was not widely expected but he is seen as safe pair of hands and an effective communicator. "
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66668941
Er, yes. That was what my post was about.......
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Got it - senior moment on my part...
(Not my real name.)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,928
You Got it Jan .
All much the same ,
Working people used to have a party that would at least support them .
Now it's all much the same . Nothing to do with caps , or dress.
No wonder people don't vote
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,879
I "got it" many years ago.
I wonder back in Keith's golden dreams how many workers that happened to be management would have been supported by the party that he describes, back then it was purely "class" related.
People do not vote because they are not bothered by what happens in Westminster, they have realised at election time it is all promises but little result.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,928
Jan
I'v never had any golden dreams as you put it.
Just look to identify with any party that is a least going to give some kind of support to the working underdogs .
There's no doubt apathy is setting in.
I'm aware of many in management roles supported by labour in days gone by.
It's not healthy , nor affordable to have a Govt thats ripping you off with an opposition happy to continue those policies
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
Extraordinary performance by the Education Secretary yesterday. Reminiscent of somebody who has already given up.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Really? I just thought she came across as a normal human being, which made a nice change.
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(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Button wrote:Really? I just thought she came across as a normal human being, which made a nice change.
As in entitled, self-aggrandizing and evasive of responsibility.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
Button wrote:Really? I just thought she came across as a normal human being, which made a nice change.
That's the point, when they go into normal person mode, you know they've given up.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,879
Neil Moors wrote:That's the point, when they go into normal person mode, you know they've given up.
I do not know if it shows they have given up, which I doubt, but as Button says is shows they are normal people behind all the sound bites and waffle that all politicians of any party at any level continue to give us.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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