Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
"Adults with disabilities in England are being deprived of basic care and support and are at risk of being forgotten"........
Not so sure of that Reg, I have just been listening to an ex madam on Jeremy Vine's radio programme who is trying to set up a group of sex workers to take care of the disabled's sexual needs.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well thanks barryw for your honesty the only conservative on here honest in wanting to privatise the NHS
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Where does he say that Keith, I can't see it?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
David
Barryw is clear in his views over many years, but im sure he can speak for himself
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Yes he can speak for himself, but I'm not sure what you say really represents his position. No doubt he'll clear it up for us.
Do you think the NHS needs reform Keith?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
David
Without doubt the NHS needs reform
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
The NHS is already using private services and has been for decades. The NHS could not exist without private provision supporting it.
The point surely is whether NHS patients are being required to pay for that provision. The concept is free at the point of delivery not that the NHS will the provider of the services.
Watty
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Its not free though is it Paul, its funded by you and I, the taxpayer. Millions in the country still believe in the money tree. I paid for a prescription this morning, plenty of others were getting their's free.
My idea is to give people a choice, opt out of NI and opt out of NHS, pay for private health instead.
I'm interested to hear what Keith's idea of reform is.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
That the NHS remains the National Health Service is the one thing that does not need changing.
That a Public Service employs certain private enterprises, as it sees fit, is no bad thing. Yet neither is it the least justification for the tail to wag the dog.
An internal combustion engine needs oil to operate properly, but is not run on that oil.
"free at the point of use." is just another mantra that is used to stall the public from viewing these issues clearly, and the phrase works just as well for the insurance based system used in the USA. Who in their right mind wants that?
P.S.
Quite right David, these damned pensioners should have to be made to choose between medicine or food...only the wealthy deserve to have their cake and eat it.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Putting words in my mouth Tom?
The choice is simple, if you want to opt out of the NHS you can, stop paying NI but don't expect an NHS bed when you're unwell.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Bed?
What about an ambulance? Blood?
And, just for the sake of 'fairness' what amount is due from the private sector for the NHS's education and training of medical staff in private employ?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
Of course you are right David that anything Governments, councils etc. spends is your money & my money in terms of taxation paid.
So let's put that to one side as accepted.
Move on to how, what & who provides it becomes the issue. Let alone where!!
The myth that it has only ever been delivered by the NHS needs dispelling.
Does the NHS need reform ? Yes certainly!
Can it be done differently? Yes definitely!
Can it be done with quality and better outcomes? Without doubt.
What stops it? NHS vested interests & public myth that the NHS is uniquely capable of delivering it.
Just a few observations.
Watty
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Tom we could argue all day, if you don't believe change needs to be made then fine, I'm not trying to persuade you.
Our health service lags behind plenty of others in Europe who don't have such a beaureaucratic machine to contend with, when I travel abroad I dont see ambulances driving past RTAs waving apologetically.
You're obviously quite happy with the NHS, good for you, Keith thinks it needs reform, so do I.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
" Quite right David, these damned pensioners should have to be made to choose between medicine or food...only the wealthy deserve to have their cake and eat it. "
Not true Tom, pensioners get their medication free and have done for years.
Keith#1024, are you stirring the pot again by any chance.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Paul, Ive a feeling you and I agree on this (
)
My point about paying, although addressed to you, was actually to those who think it comes free. The unfairest part at the moment is those who pay privately via eg BUPA are paying twice. Its time to give people the choice, pay a reduced NI and still expect an ambulance to scrape you off the A2 but deliver you to a private hospital which you pay for monthly.
Those happy with the status quo need do nothing different.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
and its cheaper to.a knee replacment at chaucer is 7k,same op in bruge 3k.now tell me differant.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Watty #1032
"The myth that it has only ever been delivered by the NHS needs dispelling."
Let us take it for granted that the 'it' is a national health service, if we do then certainly it has only been the NHS that has done 'it'. Delivered is another word that is said to mean almost anything and is heard to mean something else again. 'Delivery' was close to Devilry, before the NHS.
"Does the NHS need reform ? Yes certainly!" (sigh!) "No top down reform!" Became exactly that. Trust replaced by thrust.
"Can it be done differently? Yes definitely!" 'It' again, otherwise nothing of substance.
"Can it be done with quality and better outcomes? Without doubt." This is no more than opinion and Party Propaganda, to which you are welcome.
"What stops it? NHS vested interests & public myth that the NHS is uniquely capable of delivering it." Is there anything more justified as being a vested interest than those who show commitment to 'it' in their work and those who pay for it and have (literally) fought to get it? Those seeking to make a profit from 'it' are not a vested interest then?
Mayhap I am looking in a different place.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
David , the point you make about "scraping you off the A2 and delivering you to a private hospital for which you pay monthly " would see your mortality quickly diminish. Private hospitals really don't do emergency admissions of the type you define. Indeed you need the NHS emergency system with all its imperfections to keep you going.
Private medicine only normally does cold surgery , investigative medicine & treatment and specialised diagnostics[for which there are long NHS waits].
If you want live threatening emergency treatment, invariably the NHS normally excells. It's routine stuff where it appears to give up the ghost.
Watty
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Much of the NHS, i.e. GP practices and pharmacies, are private businesses and always have been.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
quite right paul in 1038, i have personal experience of excellent emergency treatment and dire day to day stuff.
