Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Vic - read what I said in earlier posts on this thread. It is explained there.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
It is explained the way you wish to put it which is not fact.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Vic - that is fact and in that I speak professionally not politically in respect of the public sector pension provision.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
See the statement from the local Labour Group re todays strike. Just in this minute and now on our frontpage.
Many thanks to them for the info.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Many of these workers on strike today do not deserve to pay more for their pension or have to work more years before they receive it.
Both the increase and extended working years are counterproductive and have nothing to do with cutting the deficit, it's all about bringing them to heel.
It's a shame they don't do the same with the banks and business's,raking in their million's.
I understand why they are striking but I don't believe it's the right action.
I believe they want them on strike, much like the miners and that they are ready to take them on and implement the many changes they want to make.
I also think the strike will give the extremists the platform they need to use violence on our streets.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
That Gary is what you want to think rather than reality...
I see that the local Labour Party have nailed their colours even more firmly to the mast of the extremists running the public sector Unions than Milliminor has dared to do.
Hopefully the public, the vast majority of whom see their taxes paying for public sector pensions far more generous than anything they can hope for will punish them for that.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Well I've lost a days pay because of the strike - no schools open!
As I'm not in a good mood today I will say that VM telling BarryW he knows nothing about finance is tantamount to telling the Pope he's not catholic!!! Still it gave me a laugh I suppose - yet another stupid remark from the king of them
Still at least the weather is nice and bright today
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
I did note yesterday Jacqui, that GO feels for you and others in that same boat. "Having to pay for 'expensive' child care."
No doubt he uses only 'cheapo' child care himself.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I thought I'd post something and these are purely personal views.
I really am quite sad today, I can honestly say I have been dreading this awful event for weeks. I personally do think the pensions need some reform, but this easy for me to say as the amount I have contributed so far is so little I have time to think and plan. However this is me just thinking of myself, knowing of what I currently have, can do and want to do. Others do not feel like this and I support them 100%.
The current pension in teaching was last reviewed in 2005, with changes implemented in 2007 to make them viable and sustainable for the future. I should imagine similar processes applied to other pensions schemes. I have no intention of trying suggest that public sector workers 'deserve more pension' or are 'worth more money' because I do not believe that to be the case, everybody should be valued. However, I do believe some jobs in society are 'more worthwhile' - this sense of 'worthwhile' is obviously personal, much like the gauge of whether or not someone is paid 'too much'. I personally think Nurses, Doctors, health workers, Teachers and many other that work in the name of the state (albeit as a way to earn money) are essential. That is why I retrained at the grand age of 26, took a pay cut and became a teacher (sorry about that last bit about ME, at least I wasn't sanctimonious enough to mention my charity work...oops). As a result I find my job very rewarding. Yes there are useless people in the public sector, some doing what WE perceive to be 'pointless' jobs but they are everywhere.
When I think about this whole public sector vs private sector it makes me think that this a skillful divisive way of the government trying to privatise more by turning us all against each other, when ultimately we all want the same, wellbeing for all. Constantly using this 'well they should feel what it's like for us in the private sector' is not achieving anything. In defense I could tell you about a colleague that has just left to teach in a private school, less contracted contact with students, same pay, good pension- oh and her class sizes have gone from an average of 28 to 8. I could say 'that's not fair' but I won't because I have absolutely no problem with it.
David Cameron announced his desire to reduce the public pensions as far back as 2008! No relationship to a recession or anything else, just that HE, as many do on this thread believe the pension to be too high. What this actually about is just taking away something that he intended to do anyway, actually as Tom points out, a tax. It just so happens he has the perfect excuse and as so many are suffering as the result of global capitalism, people are happy to lay the boot in. People have planned around this and are unhappy that this could happen again and again and again, until perhaps there is nothing to try and save at all. I do think the unions have stirred things up and they are in some cases no better than Cameron himself.
I personally voted in favour of my union striking, for others that have had their plans ruined, some facing the prospect of being in a classroom until 67 (do you have any idea how ludicrous this is?!). However my main reason was a change in conditions that is also included in the reform that would most definitely effect the education of children, also the result of Conservative ideology. I am frustrated that more has not been made of this, perhaps a ploy of the unions or the media.
I am upset by some of the ignorance displayed here, and also that this has happened at all.
On a sanctimonious note and slightly less sincere: I made a point of doing lots of work on the day of the royal wedding, so for all you people feigning concern for the education of children, congratulating schools for staying open, I would like to point out they ALL closed that day. A celebration of A family that would hold a position in society regardless of ability or education. Royalists tend to overlook this rather hilarious contradiction. It also cost the economy more.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
sums it up for me darren, especially the bit about being divisive, just a look down the thread shows very polarised views and the old cliches from the 70's have resurfaced.
dave has got his way.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
The Royal Wedding day was a Bank Holiday so the schools closed the same as they do on any bank holiday.
I can not be bothered answering the rest of your post except to say be very grateful you have a job in this time of high unemployment.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Thank you DT1.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Just a point Jan, the wedding day of the royals was 'declared' a bank holiday to accommodate the marriage ceremony.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I am grateful Jan, I am also grateful of the work carried out by public service workers.
I am also grateful of the contribution to society that people in the private sector make. From Barry, advising people how to make plans for their future, to Peter, providing local people with excellent food and drink.
I'm not sure why I would not be grateful?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
DT1 - first of all Brown had built up a structural deficit from 2005 so Cameron was right to say public spending needed to be cut well before the recession. In fact Brown started on his spending spree from 2001 if you look at the figures and as the left love to use Keynes as an excuse for deficit spending, you should see what he says about reducing deficits in the growth phase of the economy. If he had used Keynes theories when it was not convenient to do so we would never have faced the levels of debt and deficit we did at the start of the slowdown in 2007 and, as a result, would be in a far better position to deal with the recession and would not be facing the cuts we are. That of course ignores Browns 'off balance sheet' spending which he started in 1997 which also contributes to the problems and need to cut.]
Nice to see you acknowledge the need to reform the public sector pensions. The large private sector firms have gone through the same process with their schemes and there is nothing special about the public sector that says they should be a special case. So far there has not been adequate reform and the current proposals simply do not do enough to finalise the issue.
You talk about some jobs being more worthwhile than others. I understand that but I have to disagree but only up to a point. Good teachers like you alongside good nurses and doctors clearly do a valuable and worthwhile job but their job cannot be done without the resources to do them. Those resources have to be paid for and it is the private sector firms generating profit and providing jobs that provide those resources. For that reason I would not suggest that the Chief Executive of a successful enterprise providing jobs and tax revenue is any less worthwhile that a teacher. That said some jobs are certainly less worthwhile, I would include a lot of the beaurocratic paper chasers such as anyone with 'access' or 'equality' in their job titles, these are all about politically correct social engineering and do nothing useful at all.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
With the push to have private pension schemes 'invest' in new/improved infrastructure. Why not go the whole hog and bring all pension schemes into Public hands?
This would do away with the need for all those with 'access to tax dodging' in their job description.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Thank you Jacqui who ever you are ,nice to see you back and as rude as ever.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I agree with a lot what you say Barry, private industry pays into the system. But it is that same process that also leads to a lot of money leaving our system, due to perfectly legal tax dodges, as Tom mentions.
So yes there needs to be reform all round. As you often say we shouldn't be closing inequalities in society by rounding down to the lowest common denominator, in this case, poor private sector pensions. We should trying to round up for all, as Tom mentions ( in a way). Things do need to be reformed in public and private sector...and also MPs might want to look at themselves!?
In conclusion we should all be working together, which is why it is sad to see the lack of empathy displayed here.
On a positive note, Michael Gove is giving every school a copy of the King James Bible, so that should sort quite a few things out.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I can't believe that the whole Labour Group are not attending the Full Council meeting tonight. This is disgraceful.
There is no picket line to cross, no calling "scabs", so what's the problem ?
Why are they all sheep and follow a very sad and unnecessary decision ?
None of their questions or motions will be asked or put forward; they ask these on behalf of the people they represent, those people are not being represented tonight.
They were voted in to work with and for democracy, by taking this stance - which incidentally the (National) Labour Party do not support this strike, they are not acting for the people of Dover, but for some odd and out-dated ideology.
This is a sad day for the Labour supporters of Dover District.
An unnecessary strike and now an unnecessary refusal to dispense their electoral responsibility.
Solidarity my foot !
Roger
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
One King James Bible per school leads to problems...
"The copyright protection that the King James Version (as well as the Book of Common Prayer) has is a reminder of the era when the Crown held complete control over all the printing and publishing that happened in the United Kingdom. This copyright protection states that only those publishers who hold letters patent are allowed to reproduce the Bible independently of the Queen's Printer. The ruling also prohibits the importing of Authorized Versions into the United Kingdom. Even though there is a freedom to reproduce the Bible freely in other parts of the world, the United Kingdom maintains its hold on the copyright privileges and will only allow those authorized with letters patent to make reproductions."
From...
http://www.kingjamesbible.info/king-james-bible-copyright-status.php
So no photocopying etc.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.