howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
alex
churches closed because people got television, true believers still go hence many churches remain.
muslims still practice their religion therefore mosques do not close.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Alexander, Churches are not torn down or converted to houses by secular authorities and no well attended church has been disestablished.
If you ever study your Bible (and I hope that you do) you will know that this age will experience a great falling away or apostasy and that is precisely what we are seeing and the reason that church buildings are closing. They close because they can no longer be sustained by their congregation and they have insufficient congregation for a number of reasons, apostasy, liberalism, modern-secular doctrines adopted by the leadership, etc. etc. I don't see Churches where the Word of God is preached from the Word, day by day and week on week in an expositionary manner and where doctrine is orthoddox and sound, from a basis of well established Biblical hermeneutics, closing. The Bible also teaches that, as Christians, we should obey our Government when their edicts do not propose a direct contravention of the law of God and that we should play a part, when it is available, in selecting our leaders. All authority and all dominion is God granted, no one is placed in a position of power that has not been raised there by the Lord and He can bring them down just as He raised them up.
I am glad that you will never renounce Christianity, in the years to come there will be much pressure for you (and all professing Christians) to do so, so study your Bible daily and strengthen your faith in word and deed through prayer and quiet time spent with the Lord so that you will be equipped to resist to the end when the time comes. Just some good advice from your brother in Christ.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Now let's take Neil's phrase:
"All authority and all dominion is God granted, no one is placed in a position of power that has not been raised there by the Lord and He can bring them down just as He raised them up"
and connect this to my case, having been bitterly reproved for not voting for UKIP.
Why should I as a British citizen take part in elevating to a position of power a party that does not acknowledge and campaign for the Christian Faith being the sole and official Faith of Britain?
In the past I have had contact with UKIP. and have made proposals, also at local level, on various aspects, including economic, cultural and concerning the Faith.
I have never received any support at local level on this.
However, if a party professing the UNION will not uphold the Christian Faith, then it is, in fact, outside of the UNION, which is Christian by Constitution and definition.
My support for a party ashamed to profess the Christian Faith may be on individual issues, but will go no further than that.
Also, no church has been ripped down or "converted" without the consent of the local planning authorities, ie council.
Councils neglecting churches and giving consent for them to be torn down or converted, are in fact not abiding to the principles of our British Constitution.
At the end of the day, if I have to chose between our Union Flag and its Christian Faith, and a libertarian party that will not stand up for our Faith, and yet wants to enter the councils and legislate at local level, I will most certainly hold tight to the Church and our Christian Flag.
It is the greatest assurance a person can have.
To renege this, and lay it down, would be to forfeit one's own soul.
No-one must ever be able to say that I, Alexander, helped elevate to power an authority that did not stand up for our Sole Christian Faith and that acted outside of the UNION.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
here endeth the lesson, brother neil and brother alex will now lead us in prayer.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
one question to alex,...would it be the European union.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
As usual, take a sentence and not the whole
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I have read all your posts of Yesterday and today, Neil.
And have answered every single point in various posts.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Alexander, I'm afraid that you have insisted that you will pick and choose which bits of Biblical teaching you will abide by rather than taking note of the point being made.
You were not vilified for not voting UKIP, but for not exercising your vote in anyway whatsoever. No Vote - No Count
Church buildings are demolished or converted because the church that they housed has died (for any number of reasons, some examples of which were given). This is due to people - individuals - turning away from God at their own volition. Our State, in fact, is more religiously aware and observant than the vast majority of its citizens, so to blame the State for the closure of Church buildings is misplaced at best and ignores the facts.
Your faith in the Union flag is at odds with Biblical teaching as Christianity is not rooted in temporal territories or in inheritance. No one comes into this world as a Christian, every Christian who is, is a convert to Christianity and enters God's Kingdom as a citizen in exile at the moment of their conversion. God's Kingdom is not of this world.
in sola scriptura
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Im sure i said all that neil?????
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Yup, you did Keith
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I do not see eye to eye with you, Neil.
And even less so as you join the view of Keith:
I learned of Christianity gradually, in part through my parents, and in part through school.
Through non-stop teaching of the Bible on a daily bases in Marlborough Lines Army school for soldiers' children, and at St. Mary's school in Dover.
And also through reading the Bible.
To these people who taught Christianity at school I owe my gratitude, as the Christian Faith must be taught from the earliest days of a child. No-one becomes knowledgeable of the Christian Faith unless their elders teach it them.
Our Union Flag guaranteed us this right, that we and our children after us would be taught from early on in the ways of our Faith.
Keith wishes to ban the Christian Faith from British schools, or replace it with Islam, and other religions, or put all religions on an equal line with the True Faith of the British Isles.
This is contrary to the values of our Union Flag. It is contrary to our Constitution.
You are fighting an uphill battle, Neil, side by side with Keith, because, to date, our British Constitution concerning the Gospel is valid (officially), and has not been officially changed.
It is a creeping backdoor policy put in place that is gradually destroying the Christian Faith in Britain, and State-sponsored ripping down of churches is one of these policies.
It assures that, with each church less, the Faith has been uprooted and the younger generation more liable to be sacrificed to atheism.
Neil, you cannot deny the Christian British Constitution, which officially has not been abolished.
And no-one has ever simply become a Christian of their own free will, as you suggest.
It is through the will of others that people become instructed in the Word of the Scriptures, and only then - and gradually - does a person decide of their own free will to adhere to the Faith.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
As said, I owe my gratitude to the teachers in British schools who taught us the Christian Faith.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
"And no-one has ever simply become a Christian of their own free will, as you suggest"
I did not suggest that at all Alexander. How can the dead raise themselves to life? They cannot. If it were not for the Faith granting Grace of God, no one would ever seek Him, no one would be Christian, the Bible is absolutely clear in this respect - take a long read of the book of Romans, not just a read, but a study of that book using comparative texts from the original Greek would really help with your understanding in this respect. Or for a more complete understanding of the faith that you espouse, Gruden's Systematic Theology is a great book when read in conjunction with the Biblical text.
Everyone who is a Christian has converted to become a Christian. It is true to say that for some that the process of conviction leading to conversion is a slow and gradual one over many years, sometimes from childhood, but for many many others, conviction and conversion are a sudden event brought on by hearing the Gospel, often for the first time, spoken with the power of the Spirit behind it. Indeed, the New Testament norm and model is of sudden immediate conversion and the experience of millions of Christians throughout the ages and today is more often than not one of a definite point in time when before it one was not a Christian and after it one was a Christian.
India and China are both states where the teaching of Biblical Christianity is actively discouraged and never happens in school, yet in these two countries Christianity is growing strongly. An athiest State therefore is no impediment to church growth. It is individuals and the hardness or otherwise of their hearts towards God that determines whether Churches will flourish and grow or wither and die.
The Bible teaches that in this age in the last days there will be a great apostasy and falling away, we are witnessing the start of that and whilst I pray that it were otherwise and that people would have their hearts opened to repentence and salvation, I know that all of this is in the hands of God who works all things for the good of those who love and trust Him and are called according to His purposes.
I agree with Keith on the subject of why church buildings are being demolished or converted for other uses in this country and our libertarian State is not the reason. In that respect Keith is actually correct, so I naturally agree with a true statement. I do not agree with Keith that Christianity should be supplanted (although I don't remember him saying that it should), indeed I am engaged daily in the promulgation of the Gospel in the hope that some of those who hear will open their hearts and join the Kingdom, although I'll not ram it down the throats of those who chose to reject it.
"Our Union Flag guaranteed us this right" - erm no, only faithful preaching of the Gospel will perpetuate the Christian faith and even then, only a remnant will remain at the end of days.
I thought that perhaps you might have noted what I said about our State "Our State, in fact, is more religiously aware and observant than the vast majority of its citizens" . As our unwritten and somewhat fluid constitution is the foundation of the State, what I said definitely cannot be construed as me "denying" "the Christian British Constitution" as you put it. Sometimes, I swear you either do not read what is written or lack the cognitive ability to discern the connection between words and meanings. From what I know of our unwritten constitution there is little to none of the Gospel message contained within it and one would not expect there to be any either. Whilst our constitution has, in its foundations, a great deal of Judeao-Christian principles, the Classical Greco-Roman influence is also extremely prevalent, yet the State still, to this day, adheres far more to Christian principles than do the populace.
Christianity is never uprooted or destroyed in places where the Gospel is faithfully preached. Where faithful expository preaching of the Word gives way to ritual, tradition, human logic, false teaching and homily, the Church dies, its buildings become deserted and something else moves in.
The teaching of Christianity in State and private schools does not, and never has, led the majority of people to become Christians. Faithful preaching and teaching within a Church and the way in which the outward working of that teaching shows through in the way that the individuals who are members of that church interact with their neighbours, friends and wider community is how Christianity is established and maintained.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Alexander;
Reading Neils reply there are parts that maybe neil and i may differ, but the vast amount we appear to be singing from the same tune.
It is clear we agree on falling church numbers, or the christian faith not able to get its message across is one of the reasons why churchs close, but having said that, before a church can close it has to go before the local church council who also has executives whos decision it would be to close churches, govts/local councils do not ge a say in this.
The only time councils would be involved would be once the church councils themselves have decided to close the church
and then maybe once the church has sold the land/building it may go to another use(why shouldnt it)
Like a number of subjects alexander you appear to be under the impression that you are the only one with the knowledge yet there are m any other posters on here who have as much, if not more knowledge than yourself.
You mention in your recent post that you are less tolerant of other faiths(only christinaity hould be taught in schools) I don't agree with this viewpoint, nor should that be the case.
If we decided that beliefs on religious grounds should be taught in schools then surely shouldn't we give a full picture? there are a number of faiths, shouldnt in time these children have all the information and decide for themselves?
From a very personal point of view, I went hrough the catholic(christian)faith, which was forced upon me, no other, now whilst i still have my views on the faith, forcing any view on people can have the opposite affect on people, all my family went through the same, and because of the attempt to brainwash, one member of my family is now a humanist(switched religion completely)
whikst i dont share that, and still believe, i respect all religions, and peoples right to know about them all and make there mind up.
You will note Alexander, that neither neil or I have even touched on the problem of age old religions and wars/conflicts thast could be put down to outdated religious beliefs(norhern ireland an example)
So please alexander, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
"It is through the will of others that people become instructed in the Word of the Scriptures, and only then - and gradually - does a person decide of their own free will to adhere to the Faith."
Sounds like a definition of brainwashing to me, Alex.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
The same sort of brainwashing that no doubt triggered the horrific events in Woolwich.
Audere est facere.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Yes, quite.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
This should not worry me at all, because clearly you are trying to discredit me on account of my Christian Faith.
The next step in this process would then be to attempt to describe me as an enemy of the British People.
With determination I stood up and opposed the attempts of some to proclaim themselves as "the community of Dover" over the administrative institutions. I went as far as the highest Government levels to do so.
If you had ever achieved your aims, anyone then daring to contradict whatever you deemed right, would have been mobbed and proclaimed an enemy of the Community.
Let the People decide and see if they will follow you and condemn me!
I am known for being British, dedicated to our Christian Faith, and also have been thanked by Kent Police for opposing terrorism in our Country.
I can prove it.
Please go ahead and take your claims further, and I will stand up and prove not to have been a coward in the face of what was evidently a terrorist threat to the British People and other countries.
One thing I am not, and never will be, and that is a COWARD.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Alex nobody is trying to discredit you because of your faith. There are more practising Christians on this forum than those who openly proclaim their beliefs.
And I don't remember anyone accusing you of cowardice.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
