Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#61
To be realistic, those of us handicapped in any form are a section of society just the same as those with blonde hair are a section of society. The important thing is that we are allowed to be a productive part of society unlike days of old when so many were shut away in institutions.
So much depends on how handicapped someone is on how much they can give, the community Peter mentions sounds ideal for those with a mental handicap.
Part of the problem with the average person is that they do not really know the mentally challenged unless they live next door or are in the family.
We get a lot coming into the shop with their carers, usually to buy CDs or videos, all have their 'little ways' which we get used to, all enjoy their outings and a chat if we can. I am always heartened by how tolerant the other customers are, which shows how society is slowly changing, thank goodness.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#62
Left,right.black,white,able,less able,rich ,poor,working class ,upper class ,vunerable ,less vunerable ,caring,uncaring,east,west,north,south etc etc are all sections of society that make up Society as a whole.
ps I have not used the term 'mentally handicapped' .
I say to=mar-toe you say to=may=toe. Let's call the whole thing off tra la la.
I am sure Paul or Howie will pull me up or delete any posts of mine they feel,as editors,are inappropriate.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
#63
Peter has rightly pointed out the person-centred approach that everyone deserves, whatever their aspirations or needs. It is uncomfortable and unhelpful to lump individuals together for no purpose other than to generalise about them. It is too easy for the majority to find ways to keep people in their place and therefore less "trouble" by removing their individuality. That is one of the reasons I objected to Davies (remember him? The cause of the thread!) and his idea that some people should be "allowed" to work for less than the minimum wage - the implication is that they are of less worth. Either someone is or is not appropriate for a particular job, if they are, pay them appropriately. And do not assume that they are not just on the basis of a diagnosis or an appearance. There are better ways forward than reducing someones worth on the job market. A persons wage, and their job, can define them or impact on their self esteem.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
#64
Marek.
I do not need to use the facility to 'click' on the 'mark all topics as read' link.
I do not find any threads distasteful;
All threads should be given merit and consideration. Everyone has the option to read and take part or not to.
I chose long ago not to visit Barry's Blog or to take his views seriously. His insults and name calling, has no place on the main forum, in my opinion.
Virtually, no thread can be discussed to the full, without politics' being involved somewhere and I have no problem with that, what so ever.
I do however have a problem with me making a comment and straight away being labelled as a lefty when 99% of my comments are not political. Some people, in my opinion, just do not have the intelligence to separate personal views and politics.
A classic is your latest thread, Mr Davies is a Tory MP therefore you have every right to say so. That in its self does not make it, a political thread. Had he been a labour MP, my comments and I am sure other's, would have been exactly the same, no difference. Because the issue, to me and i believe other's, was about what he said and not about his politics.
PS. Hope you are well now?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#65
GaryC
Thanks for your kind wishes.
Feeling a lot better now that my 11yr old daughter has returned from her school holiday in France. She still loves her Dad regardless of his political leanings..
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
#66
It really is unhelpful, and does not encourage proper debate, if all discussion descends into name-calling and political assumptions. My own sandal-wearing, beansprout-chewing, Grauniad -reading background does not mean I cannot embrace alternatives. I read the Torygraph daily with pleasure and support competition in health and social services and the public sector. I have a business head as well as a responsible and egalitarian heart, and Dogma has no place in proper grown up debate.
I always enjoy reading GaryCs and Mareks posts and that is a lot to do with their ability to embrace difference and talk around topics without falling into vernal abuse and assumptions.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#67
Bern
Beansprout chewing..
I must use that one myself..love it.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#68
How's the ferritin and TFS% going, Marek? Kathryn's is now reasonably stable after four years of incompetence from the NHS and 2 years of me managing the haematologists.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#69
GaryC - there is the old saying 'if the cap fits'. I only spoke in general terms of left and right and did not address that to specific individuals. If you think of left as a term of abuse then that is down to you, 'right' has also often been used as such a term of abuse but that is fine with me as I am pleased to be called a 'right winger'. You can see such a term of abuse used in this very thread in a much more abusive manner than the way in which I employed the term 'left'.
In your case most of what I have read has been political and from very much the left consistently. So your whinge on this very political thread (from the outset) was a bit rich. By the way you never did answer the question I posed elsewhere - do you ever oppose strikes?
#70
If you use a word as a term of abuse it is, de facto, a term of abuse, and I have to say that you do trot it out pejoratatively all over your posts. So, if the cap fits.........
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#71
You......you......you.......woman!!!!!
Just to prove the point....
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
#72
Thank you Bern.
It's all been said before, most of us do learn a lot from each other, by listening and discussion and on the whole, that's what makes this a good forum.
I would join in a lot more but the childish remarks, the inability to accept that others have opinions and the "meme"( always right) attitude does put me off.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#73
i think most people put over their case in a responsible way, in the end it pays to.
once the name calling or labelling starts the level of debate drops dramatically.
i am still at a loss as to why this particular issue turned into yah boo party politics.
with hindsight i bet marek would have chosen a different thread title.
#74
I know I have tweaked my views as the result of debate on here, as well as in other places. That's how it works - we talk, we reflect, we grow.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#75
Bern, some do
, others are so entrenched with their views that they never really listen and believe they are always right.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#76
Bern - I like plain speaking, you know where you stand. I also think that people are far too over-sensitive about such things these days and I just don't believe in tippy-toeing around all the time. It seems that we are expected to tolerate and take seriously virtually anything said - remember that uni professor who said we should stop calling pets pets because it was demeaning to them, now anyone saying that should not be taken seriously, deserves ridicule and can rightly be described as a moron, I do not hesitate in saying so. Once you start taking such people seriously the world goes to hell in a handcart.
Jan - of course I am always right!!!
Except when I am wrong....
#77
BarryW, I so value your plain speaking. I think you get it wrong when you habitually introduce our political views into the threads, because although Politics is everything, it isn't central to all our threads! I think I degree of reflection on your part about this, and about the difference between tippy-toeing and respecting others views, might be helpful...
I am reminded, by the way, that one of the Fathers Day gifts we bought my Old Man was a chocolate lolly from M&S that asserted "I am always in the right".............
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#78
You know I am really all cuddly Bern
I am not habitually doing what you suggest but do so when the thread is a political one, as is this thread was right from the start. Re-read the first few posts and you will see what I mean. There are others a lot worse than me for bringing up politics in everything.
#79
BarryW, your cuddlesomeness is legion! You are off the hook - we all do that left-right thing from time to time, some more than others (yes, I am looking at you!)- but some things are both above and below politics. But your consistency is admirable!!! And I look forward to your posts!
