Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
TORY MP Phil Davies has sparked outrage after saying disabled people should work for less than the minimum wage.
Right-winger Philip Davies said if employers had to pay the same wage they would always choose to hire an able-bodied job candidate over a disabled rival.
The Shipley MP told the Commons yesterday: "People with a learning disability can't be as productive in their work as somebody who hasn't got a disability." He added: "They (disabled people) accept an employer would take on a person without mental health problems if they were both having to be paid the same rate."
It really beggars belief that in todays fairly liberal society that such extreme right wing views should be held by a sitting member of parliament.
He'll be saying next "Look - I met a guy the other day; he was deaf, he was dumb, he was blind - but he sure played a mean pinball, and he was able to make a good living from it. And that non-reliance on the state is what disabled people want."
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Yes I am 100% with Marek on this one we have a minimum wage and that is low anyway but any working person, that should mean what it says.
I think the blues should also be very carfull at this time and look back on what happen to Ted Heath and what happen then,when he got into power with only a few seats.With all the unrest coming up I can see the Goverment losing power along with the end of the pack agreement and also end of the PM And us all going back to the polls.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,897
While I do not agree with the MP I can see what he means regarding those with a mental disability, they can be a lot slower.
More incentive is needed to employ those with a disability of any kind.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
This has caused outrage indeed. However Downing Street are dropping like a hot brick any link to the individual concerned...any connection with this oddball thinking could be fatal and they have enough trouble as it is..u-turning all over the shop.
The disabled are worth the same as everybody else. I think this particular Conservative MP was trying to get the point across that if the disabled undercut the market price then they the disabled might have more chance of getting a job...but no, who wants a job that way, knowing you do not have the same value as the next guy because you are disabled...no.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
With the blues you do not see what are you geting till it is to late.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
most distasteful thing i have heard in ages. maybe he thinks that stephen hawking is worth less than other scientists.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Some people simply do not care about others.
Jan.
You don't agree but you see what he means?
Not all disabled are slower and if they are it's not their fault.
I presume your more "incentive" is to give more money to employers? Many jobs could be given to disabled without bribes to employers or a reduction in wages.
It's all about caring and sharing.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
He makes a very valid and interesting point.
It deserves a more thoughtful consideration that the hysterical left allow. What he said was prompted by representations made to him by his constituents who are disabled. These people want the dignity and self-respect of work and are disadvantaged in obtaining work. They deserve the opportunities.
The minimum wage is a barrier to work for some people and locks others into a low wage norm. The best solution is to get rid of it.
He makes no such thing. What he makes is a sweeping insulting generalisation which demeans and belittles entire sections of society, some of whom were subject to similar perceptions under Hitler. They were based on his interpretation of what he thought he heard because he didn't understand what he heard from people with different ways of communicating. Shame on him.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
hardly the hysterical left barry, just decent people that are shocked by his outburst.
if you think that the minimum wage is too high then you are very out of touch.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
The minimum wage should be exactly that,a starting point, then if the employee is worth more ,..then their pay should reflect their true worth.
I hired a registered blind person which required me to fit special computers ,braille signs etc at great cost but I thought it was worth it to give the girl a start in life.
I'm not sure it still exists but there are grants available for businesses willing to take on less abled bodied employees.
Their daily cost of living is the same if not more than ours so by asking them to take less in salary to make them more competitive in the jobs market is insulting to the extreme.
You'll be advocating that the blacks,asians et al do the same next.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
How many commenting on here actually heard all of his speech or even listened to the whole debate, or are instead basing their views on reports of it?
I didn't but I did see more extracts of it than were in the main news programs and I thought he was genuinely trying to start a debate about problems that aren't normally debated because of exactly the type of hysterical knee jerk response that is automatically generated by the media when people speak outside the box.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Marek - your last sentence is the kind of hysterical daft left wing comments I talk about. Sad to see Bern also falling into the same trap astonishingly bringing Hitler into it...
Simplistic top-down interventions, such as the minimum wage, usually create anomalies and end up being counter productive usually damaging those they think might be helped.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Well said Ray - spot on.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
The full text is in Hansard listed under Mein Kampf.
Ray
I wonder how many people like myself running a private business have ever actually hired a less able person and seen the happiness on their faces to be accepted into the real world based upon their ability and not because they are seen as cheap labour.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
Marek, quite a few of the enlightened ones, including the one who hired my registered disabled Dad when he took us back oop north as there was no work for him in Dover.
I do not understand how it can be seen as hysterical to be alive to the grubby and invidious prejudices that lead down the slippery slope to eugenics and genocide. People across the world and across the centuries have used spurious "social data" and poorly thought through ideas to justify treating people less equally. Disabled, black, uneducated - whatever. There is no excuse for a civilised society - or an educated person for that matter - to collude with this. It is not hysterical, it is mindful.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Ray
That just goes to prove that us flat capped pigeon fancying socialist northerners from the shadows of the satanic mills of Stockport are more caring than most.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Please don't make up your mind on the basis of Marek's edited soundbite. Here is the full text of his remarks. Admittedly it was always going to appal the hand-wringing left but if you take the trouble to read what he said in its entirety it is far more reasonable-sounding.
I went to visit a charity called Mind in Bradford a few years ago. One of the great scandals that the Labour party would like to sweep under the carpet is that in this country only about 16%—I stand to be corrected on the figure—of people with learning difficulties and learning disabilities have a job. The others are unemployed, but why is that?
I spoke to people at Mind who were using the service offered by that charity, and they were completely up front with me about things. They described what would happen when someone with mental health problems went for a job and other people without these problems had also applied. They asked me, "Who would you take on?" They accepted that it was inevitable that the employer would take on the person who had no mental health problems, as all would have to be paid the same rate.
Given that some of those people with a learning disability cannot, by definition, be as productive in their work as someone who does not have a disability of that nature, and given that the employer would have to pay the two people the same, it was inevitable that the employer would take on the person who was going to be more productive and less of a risk. The situation was doing the people with learning difficulties a huge disservice.
As I said at the start of my remarks, the national minimum wage has been of great benefit to lots of low-paid people. However, if the Labour party is not even prepared to accept that the minimum wage is making it harder for some of those vulnerable people to get on the first rung of the jobs ladder, we will never get anywhere in trying to help these people into employment.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
Peter, thanks for posting that.
Marek - wrong side of the Pennines, almost as bad as the left/right divide!
