Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#1
A little dicky bird told me that the French high speed train, (the TGV), is coming through the tunnel Monday evening. Whether it`s a trial run or not, I`m not sure yet. Would be good news if they do start running regular, as it will add other destination`s from London, as well as Paris and Brussel`s. Maybe the German high speed train (ICE) next?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#2
Will it do Dover any good though ?
The earliest they can get off is Ashford, I'd be surprised if they would then wait for a train for Dover, so if they are coming to Dover, they would still come here by Ferry.
Roger
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#3
Interesting that one Roger, as I`ve never really thought about how much ferry passenger traffic is lost to the Eurostar. If the above started a service though, which will happen, it would open up the chance of the high speed train from Dover to Ashford, for boarding a train to the South of France, (Lille), or even down to Spain. Spanish Railway`s, (RENFE), have some of the cheapest train fare`s in Europe. Regarding doing Dover any good, I`d leave that to other`s to comment on.
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#4
colin,i think you will find lille in northen france,not many miles from dunkirk allso northen france.
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,321
#5
Are TGV's allowed in the tunnel Ed?
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#6
Many thanks Brian. I think the last time I saw a map of France was before the last ice age, and techtonic movement`s have shifted Lille hundred`s of mile`s north. (I`m sure you believe that one Brian, don`t you?
). Terry, the TGV is the same gauge as all other trains that come through there mate. Same overhead voltage etc. There has been talk over the years of them running through as well as the German ICE`s, but for some reason, never come to fruition.
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Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,321
#7
I was thinking more about signalling Colin. TGV and the CT share the same TVM-430 but I thought that there was something else involved in the tunnel.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#8
Interesting Terry, will leave that one as you said to Ed.
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Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
#9
I expect you know more about this than me, Terry, but for what its worth here is my twopennorth.
This is obviously a trial run without passengers so should present no problem. The Channel Tunnel and the High Speed 1 line (formerly known as the CTRL) to St.Pancras are basically an extension of the French LGV network so they employ the French TVM-430 in-cab signalling system and work on the same 25kV overhead power supply. The tunnel is constructed to the much bigger dimensions required for the shuttle trains so is no problem, and HS1 is constructed to the UIC continental loading gauge affording the clearances needed for continental trains vis a vis the smaller British loading gauge, so again no problem.
Only the Eurostar trains are allowed to carry passengers through the tunnel at present. They were constructed at great expense with various features not required on surface railways. One of the principal differences is that they capable of being split into two halves in the event of a fire. All the passengers would be evacuated into the half that is not on fire, the train then split and driven out of the tunnel.
This feature has never been used. All three fires in the tunnel have been on freight shuttles. The argument therefore is that this feature is unnecessarily prescriptive and can be relaxed without impinging on safety. This would enable French TGV and German ICE trains to use the tunnel without major redesign. The Intergovernmental Commission responsible for tunnel safety is giving this due consideration.
Both SNCF and DB are very interested in running international trains to London. I believe there is an EU policy on open access about to come into force which will have a bearing on this. Also, the UK part of Eurostar is up for sale and is expected to be taken over by Deutsche Bahn, who already operate almost all the freight in the UK after purchasing EWS, and also own Chiltern Railways.
The main sticking point for operating trains to other destinations on the continent apart from Paris and Brussels is that the UK is not party to the Schengen agreement. All international trains on the continent within the Schengen area travel across borders without any border controls. The UK requires that all passengers at both ends pass through immigration controls. This requires separate platforms sealed off from the local platforms and no intermingling of international and local passengers at any stops enroute. Providing these facilities at a multiplicity of destinations such as Amsterdam, Cologne, etc, would be very expensive and quite possibly impractical where the space for constructing dedicated platforms does not exist.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#10
Very interesting all that Ed, I remember now the bit about splitting the train in case of fire but much of your other info` I haven`t ever gone into.
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Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
#11
Re the TVM-430 signalling system, the Eurotunnel website confirms that this is used in the tunnel. For our other readers, this is the in-cab signalling system that has to be used as it is not possible to view conventional lineside signals at the 300kph (186mph) speeds used on the high speed lines.
The only other issue is the train protection system used in the St.Pancras approaches. Unlike the British TPWS used on the domestic network, this employs the French KVB system so again presents no problems.
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,321
#12
Thanks Ed. I just had it in the back of my mind that there was something else that prohibited TGV's in the tunnel and over here on HS1.
Then of course there's the problem of platform height at Stratford for the Olympic Games, but that's another matter.
Chin chin (or should that be chuff chuff)
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#13
This train didn`t run tonight, so hopefully I can find out tomorrow why not.
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Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
#14
Regarding splitting the train in the event of a fire, I could never understand why this didn't happen. In the first major fire it would have been the obvious answer to getting the truckers to safety far more quickly than was the actual case. When I first started using Le Shuttle much was made of this "safety feature". The freight shuttle is supposed to disconnect immediately behind the Club Car, thus leaving all the freight carriages in the tunnel while the lead loco and the Club Car, with all the passengers, could safely exit the tunnel very quickly indeed.
I suspect the answer has something to do with how the disconnection is actually achieved.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,321
18 August 2010
20:0166095#15
I see in the railway press that a DB ICE-3 is due to arrive at St Pancras at the end of October.
It seems that the sticking point for public use is the fact the the trains are only half the length of the Eurostars. If they have to stop in the tunnel they may not be near to an access to the service tunnel.
The powers that be are working on that however so we may yet see through trains to Cologne etc.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 697- Registered: 13 Apr 2010
- Posts: 622
18 August 2010
20:0666097#16
Thanks, Terry. This was reported on Meridian News last week. I think German Railways are very keen on running services through the Channel Tunnel, and Eurotunnel keen to increase revenue. They certainly have plenty of spare capacity.
My understanding from the Meridian report is that the doors on the ICE would not line up with the emergency evacuation points into the service tunnel, unlike the shuttle trains and Eurostar.
Could potentially be very good news for East Kent, if the trains stop at Ashford.
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,321
18 August 2010
20:1066098#17
I didn't see it Kevin, I don't usually watch what my mother used to call the "Light Programme"!
It was well reported in last week's "Rail".
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
18 August 2010
20:1566099#18
Wow! what a shot of that train. Thanks for the info Terry. Didnt know anything about this. The ICE train is legendary and the news is hugely exciting. Imagine rail lines scything across europe in all directions...I know a few individuals very keen to go to Cologne and the ICE train is the way to do it!
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,321
18 August 2010
20:1666100#19
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
18 August 2010
20:2966102#20
Well what was I saying this will not help the ferry companys .
