Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
BenjiB wrote:So St James development is going to be charged 7 days a week! Have never been a cynic of the scheme but this is incredibly short sighted by ddc or whoever thought that was a good idea. and no doubt it will be 4 hours max. So people can't watch a film, have a meal and have a look around the shops in one go. Absolute joke but not surprised
The whole of the St James development, including the car park, is owned by Legal and General as part of their property portfolio. What they do with the car park in terms of charging or not is their own business as it's their property and their plan is to charge for parking on Sundays.
IF DDC were NOT to charge for Sunday parking in the streets/car parks around the site you would end up with (for example) the car park by the present swimming pool being filled with shoppers parking for free on a Sunday and would-be swimmers finding nowhere to park anywhere near to the pool.
IF things were as simple as the EKM prints and many forumites think then all parking problems everywhere would have been sorted out a long time ago.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Guest 2210- Registered: 16 Aug 2017
- Posts: 53
Well L and G have dropped a clanger here and everywhere else have to suffer for it? They are filling the place up with bargain basement shops bit want 1.10 an hour parking???
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Guest 2418- Registered: 14 Dec 2017
- Posts: 37
What a mess! A private owned insurance company forcing a whole district to change it's car parking charging stratedgy. The only winner will be Westwood Cross.
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
PaulineQuick wrote:What a mess! A private owned insurance company forcing a whole district to change it's car parking charging stratedgy. The only winner will be Westwood Cross.
Incorrect. This is the reason for charging for Sunday parking immediately surrounding the St James site. There would be NO CHANGE to the 'free' Sunday parking in the rest of Dover.
Deal, for example, is a totally different matter. At last night's meeting it was suggested that Deal's car parks near the town centre are close to capacity capacity on Sundays as is backed by traffic surveys and anecdotally that some people (DFLs? Shop workers?) are parked up in them all day actually stopping would-be shoppers parking and shopping.
IF this is the case then Sunday parking charges are a sensible solution. HOWEVER we have had no figures to show this. Officers have been asked to look at 'churn' i.e. movements in and out of car park over time which should provide a metric for how long different people are actually parked up.
It's only when a problem has actually been identified and measured that one can even begin looking for a solution.
We would all like a 'free' space outside our house, where we go to work, where we shop, when we visit people in hospital and so on. We are dealing with finite supply (spaces) and a growing demand (cars) so some sort of rationing is inevitable in some places at some times.
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'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,680
L&G is a publicly owned company that offers not only insurance, but also investment products and more importantly, perhaps, pensions.
Its shares are owned by many other pension providers so the returns that they make on their investments (e.g. St James development) not only benefit people who hold their pension products but also people who hold pension products from other providers.
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Guest 2418- Registered: 14 Dec 2017
- Posts: 37
Captain Haddock wrote:
We would all like a 'free' space outside our house, where we go to work, where we shop, when we visit people in hospital and so on. We are dealing with finite supply (spaces) and a growing demand (cars) so some sort of rationing is inevitable in some places at some times.
Probably best to start rationing house building and improve local bus, train services and cycle lanes
Guest 2210- Registered: 16 Aug 2017
- Posts: 53
So are they putting in the charges around st James on Sunday as a deterrent for people or as a money maker? You are saying deterrent. What about the poor people that use the car parks nearby on Sunday's already???
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Guest 2418- Registered: 14 Dec 2017
- Posts: 37
Ross Miller wrote:L&G is a publicly owned company that offers not only insurance, but also investment products and more importantly, perhaps, pensions.
Its shares are owned by many other pension providers so the returns that they make on their investments (e.g. St James development) not only benefit people who hold their pension products but also people who hold pension products from other providers.
That's really interesting Ross!
Guest 1997- Registered: 3 Mar 2017
- Posts: 148
Ironically enough, Legal and General manage my private pension. I must drop them a line of congratulations knowing now how much my funds will be boosted by the addition of parking charges at St. James.
The moot word is, of course, "manage" rather than own. As anyone with any knowledge will tell you, the actual investments are held right across the financial range in any well diversified fund. UK property will generally play a small part, but UK property as owned by L&G is a very small part of the that. Parking charges at one particular site is a minuscule proportion, mathematically negligible.
Whether charging at St.James will work to its detriment or not, I don't know. DDC's charges will certainly not help footfall. The sports centre will soon be closing when its replacement opens at Whitfield. Why else would anyone local want to visit that part of town on a Sunday? Our fishy friend is often one of the more confused forumites but also, sadly, one whose party dominates the council.
No doubt he will elaborate.
PatrickS- Location: Marine Parade, Dover
- Registered: 19 Sep 2015
- Posts: 447
JLL (Jones Lang Lasalle) are managing the St James Car park on behalf of Legal & General - the site owners.
JLL manage other car parking areas in Kent including one in Broadstairs adjacent to the Free Westwood Cross car park.
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g635678-d2141303-r350466398-Westwood_Cross-Broadstairs_Isle_of_Thanet_Kent_England.html
DDC have nothing to do with JLL or L&G’s decision to employ them. They have however reacted to the imposition of 7 day charges at St James by a recent decision to impose Sunday CP charges in areas around St James.
Not sure whether this amounts to what came first - the chicken or the egg!
DDC’s reasoning and decision to impose the Sunday charges is opposed by Scrutiny Committee on Tuesday and subject to further consultation with wider implications beyond DDC controlled parking in Dover.
Whatever, the St James Retail Shopping Area appears to be solidly charging for car parking 7 days a week with a 30 minute free ‘click & collect’ period only.
ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) will monitor vehicles in and out of the site.
Is this the correct way to go about attracting residents and visitors to a new in town retail development?
Whilst DDC have little or no control over the parking in St James they DO control the car parks and on street parking around the St James development.
Instead of imposing further Sunday charges they should be heading in the opposite direction, even to the extent of reducing their charges, in effect encouraging people into the area with increased ‘churning’ resulting in higher revenues. If not yet a further lost cause for Dover and Dover’s retail businesses.
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Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,655
As I do not drive I can be objective about the parking charges.
Surely it is short sighted to charge for parking, once the initial curious nose to what is on offer surely the owners want repeat visits. Knowing how people resent have to pay for parking they should at least make an effort to encourage shoppers, all I have heard is people saying they will still go out of the area.
Is St James going to end up another waste of time, money and effort? I certainly hope not but so far there will be nothing there that will make me visit more than a couple of times a year which is a shame.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
Hot off the Press:-
Review of On and Off Street Parking Charges
RESOLVED: That it be recommended to Cabinet in respect of decision CAB127:
(a) That as the justification used by Cabinet to defer the decision on rural parking charges applied equally to the towns it not proceed with implementing the charges for the towns without further work and consultation.
(b) That a further report be produced providing details of the level of ‘churn’ at car parks.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
as I haven't got a car, parking charges don't bother me, but like some sort of free parking say a pound all day on all car parks across the district.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
It is Sunday morning and I have just returned from the Middle Street Car Park which, in spite of it being a miserable overcast day and no 'special events' in town, is already full.
We are not going to attract visitors/shoppers/anglers/sightseers if all the parking spaces have been taken by the time they arrive are we?
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'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Stembrook is usually fairly full on a Sunday morning before the shops even open.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Yet another petition, this time in deal but the problem of spaces being taken early on needs to be addressed and no amount of party politics will solve the problem.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/deal/news/petition-to-stop-sunday-parking-158805/Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:Yet another petition, this time in deal but the problem of spaces being taken early on needs to be addressed and no amount of party politics will solve the problem.
Absolutely correct Howard. It would be helpful if people actually tried to offer solutions rather than the usual 'I blame the Council'.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Guest 2418- Registered: 14 Dec 2017
- Posts: 37
I have never had a problem parking in Deal on a Sunday however it is almost impossible to find a space on Saturday which already has charges. I fail to see how introducing Sunday charges is a solution at all.
Simon Crowley- Registered: 4 Oct 2012
- Posts: 357
Here is something towards a solution.
The council should provide a "workers" car park, something like the long term car park, but for workers only - at severely reduced rate say, £5 a week (per 7 days) which will also mean that they don't clog up the free parking on Sunday for visitors. This car park would be one of the off centre car parks but not one that is so far away as to be unattractive. NPR system so that only registered employees can gain access. This will allow the central car parks to be fully available for visitors and shoppers alike. On special days when additional parking is required access could be given by allowing non registered cars in. In the evenings from say 6 pm, the car park could allow restaurant/leisure goers residents in if there is space, and if they are not removed by 8 in the morning they will receive an automatic charge of say £10 per hour via the NPR in order to get out.
In my business I have 8 parking permits. However only three of the cars are used constantly during the day. It would make sense if the regime recognised the time factor of constant use and constant toing and froing to the car park and allowed those three cars to park in a four hour car park close to the office and in return make the other cars park in a workers car park because they do not get used during the day.
Charging on a Sunday will not help any of the three Towns in the District. Dealing with the workers must be one way to help.
If Sunday charges are deemed necessary, then the problem could be solved/eased by having the first two or three hours free, then £4 per hour or part thereof after the free period. NPR is a brilliant way of ensuring the charges are taken. Churn is guaranteed.
Guest 1467- Registered: 30 Jan 2015
- Posts: 149
So it seems the first 30 mins is free? Our staff often nip into Tesco's for a sandwich, it is free of course to park there. But if they had to pay £1.10 or whatever, to call into the new M&S, they will avoid it. If you consider that on a larger scale, I do believe that charging will be considered by shoppers, especially if they can go to Westwood X that has many more stores.
Having said that, Canterbury parking is a fortune and the blighters even double the price on Saturdays in the MS - and you try getting a space there on Saturdays, its packed. That doesn't put people off though, I don't know what to think now....