howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#1
Always gets people up in arms even though there will still be plenty of free parking on Sundays.
http://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/24-car-parks-roads-dover-1037207Paul M- Registered: 1 Feb 2016
- Posts: 393
#2
So, all linked to the St James development and the need to ensure that people who want to spend money, also need to be fleeced for parking. The four hour maximum period will be challenging for those who want to catch a movie, do some shopping and perhaps have a meal.
Guest 2418- Registered: 14 Dec 2017
- Posts: 37
#3
Can't imagine anyone would choose to go to the new cinema in Dover when parking is free at Westwood Cross and a film ticket is only a fiver at Vue
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Judith Roberts- Registered: 15 May 2012
- Posts: 637
#4
Will there be parking charges in the evening at St James?
If they don't charge for parking in the daytime the car park will be full all day with cars belonging to people who work in the town.
No-one from Dover in their right mind would drive all the way to Westwood to see a film that was showing in their local cinema. Of course if you live in Deal you would have to weigh up the costs and benefits before deciding which cinema to choose.
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,261
#5
#2-4 the main reason why many doubt the "attracting people to destination Dover" plan will work. Will bring in people from the surrounding villages but deal and folkestone residents will head the opposite directions.
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Arte et Marte
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#6
[QUOTE="Judith Roberts"]Will there be parking charges in the evening at St James?
If they don't charge for parking in the daytime the car park will be full all day with cars belonging to people who work in the town.
I'm sure I read that parking at St James will be free after 5 pm.
Guest 2418- Registered: 14 Dec 2017
- Posts: 37
#7
Judith Roberts wrote:Will there be parking charges in the evening at St James?
If they don't charge for parking in the daytime the car park will be full all day with cars belonging to people who work in the town.
No-one from Dover in their right mind would drive all the way to Westwood to see a film that was showing in their local cinema. Of course if you live in Deal you would have to weigh up the costs and benefits before deciding which cinema to choose.
I live in Dover and will still go to Westwood Cross to see a film (petrol £5.50 + cinema for family x 4 £19.95) = £25.45
Cineworld Dover (parking 4 hours £4.40 + cinema for family x 4 £34.40) = £38.80
Paul M- Registered: 1 Feb 2016
- Posts: 393
#8
I really think they need to review this as the parking charges will put many people off from going there in the first place. I understand for obvious reasons already highlighted why they need to charge but perhaps an hour or two free and then charges kick in?
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Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#9
Paul M wrote: I understand for obvious reasons already highlighted why they need to charge but perhaps an hour or two free and then charges kick in?
I agree especially at the start after the first couple of weeks once the novelty has worn off and when they need to get the footfall. The stores could also refund parking charges at the tills after a set amount is bought, this used to be common practice not that long ago.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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PatrickS
- Location: Marine Parade, Dover
- Registered: 19 Sep 2015
- Posts: 448
#10
It's a good idea Jan that is well worth serious consideration.
The problem is that it is the Stores that lose money with that, not the Council. Stores would have to be able to justify the cost involved to profit from any increased footfall they may attract if such a system were introduced.
DDC proposals for revised parking charges in the District indicate a possible free 30 minute for 'click & collect' at St James, and it looks like the rest of the charges there will be in line with the rest of some of the in town sites with a max. of 4 hours and £4.40. Not set in stone yet though.
So, say park there for the Cinema and a meal could well exceed the max. time allowed.
My personal view is that DDC's car parking charges will probably put people off from visiting on any regular sort of basis. First time 'look and sees' and one off visits may be OK but for regulars the best option may lie with a good bus service, or go elsewhere. After all there are other shopping areas in and around Dover that offer free parking.
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Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#11
Surely St James is a private site owned by L&G Investment Management, so why are the Council running the car park?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
PatrickS- Location: Marine Parade, Dover
- Registered: 19 Sep 2015
- Posts: 448
#12
Ross, the information in my post came from today's Kent Live report headed "The 24 car parks and roads in Dover, Deal and Sandwich where Sunday charging could be introduced"
http://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/24-car-parks-roads-dover-1037207
which includes the following:
"Parking arrangements for St James will match other town centre car parks with the first half hour free – to enable a ‘click and collect’ regime – and a maximum four hour stay to meet the retail and leisure needs."
Although reading it again there is no specific mention that charges will be levied by DDC, it very much infers that that is the case. I was also under the impression that DDC owned the site but may be wrong on that point.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#13
Fairly sure that Legal and General own the site Patrick, I would imagine that a deal was done with DDC over parking.
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Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
#14
For background of proposed changes in parking charges - See item 14 here:-
http://moderngov.dover.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=139&MId=2687
Up before Scrutiny (Policy and Performance) Committee Tuesday, 16th January, 2018 6.00 pm
See you all there?
"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,261
#15
There's going to be a lot of 2 car households annoyed at having to buy an extra permit,
and do they recally think people at going to park up Coombe valley in a resident zone and walk to St James.
Arte et Marte
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,095
#16
Well, I don't see that two-car households can have any complaints: after all, if they can afford to keep two cars, they can afford to buy two permits. Only anecdotal I know, but the transferable permit has had no take-up whatsoever in my road, despite the existence of several double-vehicled families. And, though I agree that most motorists would sooner lose their legs than be obliged to walk anywhere, many will go a very long way to get others to pay for their parking.
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'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
#17
A letter to the leader:-
Hi Keith,
Just read through the 18 page Review of Parking Charges.
Here's my rather Deal-centric view. I'll try to be brief.
Firstly can we take it that the function of parking restrictions is to keep traffic flowing and to ration a finite resource when supply does not meet demand, and it's not meant to be a 'nice little earner' for the Council?
Let's look for a start at the proposals for two permits per household. Where I live (Victoria Road) are large terraced Victorian houses with no scope for adding individual parking in front or behind the property (which tends to bugger things up anyway as you end up with dropped curbs, dog-bone markings and the loss of an on-street space whether the house owner is parked up or not).
A few years ago (and I was one of the people who complained to get it changed - in spite of having two cars at the time) residents parking permits were handed out almost on demand. In spite of the fact of many of us having permits, few could actually find a space near their house (some of us wash our own car) and most people were kept unhappy with parking for most of the time.
With the rationing down to one permit we are almost guaranteed a place somewhere close to our house, most of the time, and get used to the fact that we must find somewhere else to park the second car.
Granting second car permits will have little effect on revenue, will not produce one extra parking space and will result in more people being even more pissed off with the council for more of the time when they find that the permit they've paid for is next to useless.
Next we look at charging for parking on Sundays.
Sainsburys car park is almost empty overnight Saturday which suggests that it is NOT full of people parked up there who are down for the weekend and wish to avoid parking charges.
I've talked to the manager of Sainsburys who admits that parking at 15.00 hours on Sunday is 'tight'. Of course it is. People are doing their shopping. And they are doing their shopping there rather than going to Westwood with its 58 other retail outlets, free parking and a cinema showing films at £4.99 a pop!
I presume Sainsbury's Head Office were asked for their view on Sunday charging? What was their attitude to DDC driving their customers away? PLEASE don't tell me they were never consulted.
What will happen when you start charging for on-street parking in Victoria Road (for example) on Sundays?
What will happen is you will get the same farce as we had over Christmas where cars end up ticketed whilst those parked on the opposite side of the road, on single yellow lines, can stay there all day as the restrictions are only Mon - Sat! There's sensible for you.
I note also that according to 4.7 “that when special events are held in the town centre (predominantly at weekends) the pressures on parking become even greater.”
Of course they do. That's why they are 'special events'. I believe the village of Pilton has much the same problem with the Glastonbury Festival but they don't mess their locals around all the year round because of it.
Were Deal Town to get into the Premiership perhaps we'll have to reconsider but until then?
Nothing in the report has convinced me that we need to charge for Sunday Parking. References are made to such as the Deal Parking Strategy (lovely document - really glossy - how much did the consultants cost us this time?) which is full of the the usual guff about holistic level solutions and road space allocations and stakeholder engagement (could these reports pass the Turing Test? Just wondering) but has no figures accessible on-line on which it was presumably based.
Where are the figures to suggest that Deal has reached peak-Car and between what hours and what days and which time of year and what were any 'special events'?
The only sensible thing they mention is differential pricing which I suppose they had to mention having heard of Donald Shoup's research, but even here they describe it a possibly being 'confusing to visitors'. FFS.
At least I read all 765 pages of his magnum opus!
On the plus side I note that in making our report 'consideration has been given to equality issues'!
Ha, bloody ha!
Grateful for your comments.
Best wishes
Haddock
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"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#18
The meeting must have concluded by now we just have to wait by the teleprinter for the result to come in from Fort Whitfield.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#19
The Cabinet voted the charges through on Monday, Scrutiny scrapped them on Tuesday yet it is now going out to public consultation.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/deal/news/major-sunday-parking-charges-scheme-158635/Guest 2210- Registered: 16 Aug 2017
- Posts: 53
#20
So st James development is going to be charged 7 days a week! Have never been a cynic of the scheme but this is incredibly short sighted by ddc or whoever thought that was a good idea. and no doubt it will be 4 hours max. So people can't watch a film, have a meal and have a look around the shops in one go. Absolute joke but not surprised