Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
This is privatisation by the back door. Before long this will be the established way and we will see the hiving off of the profitable bits, charges being introduced - but only gradually until we accept that as the norm too.
The NHS, like most public sector bodies, needed politicians to get off its back and allow those in the know to run it.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that is how many see it including me, money will be pumped into this hospital so that everything works well and then it will be held up as a beacon to others.
we will all be impressed and insist that others follow suit and then the cuts in funding will come in and charges levied.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
post 41 says it all
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Howard - I have always said free at the point of use as you well know.
Yes it is good to see that the 'insiders' here too recognise how the NHS system does not work.
I also admit that I would go much further than most on here. Yes I would sell off all the hospitals and other facilities to private health concerns whether charities, social enterprises or businesses and I would fund healthcare via private insurance schemes on a European (not American) model. The latter is because by separating health provision from the health funder you will get better outcomes.
At the end of the day it does not matter in the slightest who delivers the care, neither does it matter who or how it is paid for. What matters in (yes Howard) free at the point of delivery high quality care with the best outcomes.
If you get diagnosed with cancer you do not care about anything other than getting better neither do you care if anyone is making a profit. Profit is a good thing, not a bad, some here simply have an idealogical opposition to profit that frankly does not make sense and is based on a very warped idea of how the profit motive works.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
your views are shared free at the point of entry plus all the rest are shared, and i have not seen a poster that does not recognise there is room for improvement in the NHS
the copncern with privatising or selling off our health care is who will these private companies first call be to?
the shareholders/directors/ etc
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DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Profit is a good thing, it just depends on how it obtained.
All 'profit' is not the same.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
DTI
I share your view entirely
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think that in time free at the point of use will be phased out for certain treatments, then it will be down to health insurance.
it goes without saying that some people will be able to afford higher premiums therefore higher quality treatment.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
howard;
and yes thats the real danger here
moving towards an american style treatment where the ambulance driver wont treat you unless you have paid up your medical insurance
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Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Years ago when I was working in Germany,I came out of work at about 2200hrs one night it was raining hard,and a car hit me,the ambulance was called there was blood all over the place from my leg,the driver of the ambulance asked if I had medical insurance,I said yes but it was held by the company I work for,he then went on to say"can not take you to the Hospital without seeing the cover note,by then the police turned up I was still lieing in the rd,the police said they will go and get the cover from my forman,because he can not come to us ,he had been drinking.so in the end I put my own belt around my leg to try and stop the bleeding,they took me to the hospital and they still would not look at my leg till the police came back with that cover note. That would have never happen over here. But it could with the way Barry would like to see it go.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
sarah
you will see from post 50 the dangers we could and probably would face
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
No Vic - you are speaking of a lot of years ago. Things have changed. No-one in Germany would want our NHS that is certain.
DT1 - Profit made from illegal activity I would agree with you but I know that is not what you actually mean.
Once again it is system and left wing ideology above results.
No-one is suggesting the American system so making the suggestion you do Keith is no defence of the status quo. All I see from certain people are the kind of negativity with which any serious assessment of NHS alternatives is cursed preventing proper and sensible policy making. The way some regard the NHS prevents us ever getting top world class health care with the best because it scares the politicians off making the changes that are so necessary. Sad.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
There are those who are quite happy with what we have, I am not one of them.
I want to see an improved service I do not mind how that is reached so long as it happens, sometimes a radial change is what is needed to make it work.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Exactly! And the stubborn refusal of some to seriously explore options is what is holding the NHS back.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
bern/.barryw/jan
exp0lore yes, radical yes
i do care who provides the care as its the care in this case that is most important
and iv yet to be convinced in private hands this would be the case.
and whilst the american style or similar is not on the cards, this would be the slow drip drip way to slowly move in that direction.
nothing about politics or ideals its about whats best
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No it isn't, it is about failing to open the eyes and see that change is inevitable and our best option is to take a realistic look at what will produce the best results. Of course care is the most important bit, and there are plenty of safeguards that protect and promote that - more than there are at present, in fact. Can you honestly say, given all the evidence, that the NHS protects and cares for people properly? Why cling to a failing system when there are better models?
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
When we have our `Hospital`which will be to care for `all` local people in our towns and villages.................Do we want it to become `Private` within months,years?
# 52. Another example of twisting,misrepresentation of the meaning of `other` peoples postings.The propaganda goes on and on..................................
# 53 and 54.The arguement for Private Health Care appears to be going round in circles!!
Must be the Propaganda is still working.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
im still waiting to see the better models as you calll them bern
the ones i see use nhs facilities
and my eyes are open
just because we disagree doesnt mean one or other has that much more knowledge.
i have had many such dealings with the present nhs for all manner of reasons
and the private sector to.
so explore yes
eyes open
improve the nhs yes
radical yes
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It's nothing to do with healthy disagreement, Keith, which is cool. I am just reflecting that some seem to doggedly reject anything other than what we already use as a model when it clearly isn't hitting the spot for todays needs. There is a great deal of sentimentality about the NHS which clouds peoples judgement. The word "private" crops up and people pick up their skirts and shriek.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
BERN;
Oh yes im not one to sit back and just agree(you might have noticed)
don't go much for wearing skirts these days lol
no sentiment by me
its whats best that matters
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