howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i don't think i have ever heard anyone say a good word about their local council david, just the way it is.
i stand by my statement that the port uncertainty has not just hindered but actually stopped money being spent on projects in the town.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
But that's only in recent years Howard, this situation goes back 30 or 40 years and for that reason I wouldn't want to start blaming current DDC councillors or officers, but I agree somewhat with David's point.
The only things we have got in the town since the early 70s are the things we didn't want - the York St dual carriageway destroying much of the town's history and character, Burlingtown tower, the A2 cutting off the town from the seafront etc and I don't think DTIZ will solve any of this - it's a grand plan dreamt up by outsiders who know little about the town and follows other grand plans like the now defunct White Cliffs Experience and the white elephant car park that came with it.
I would much prefer to have seen an organic development of the DTIZ and Snargate Street area from people and companies who know the town and what would work in it. As it is we've had the heart ripped out of it over the years to the great god of getting traffic to and from the port as quickly as possible, instead of a sensible development of Jubilee Way which would have left the town a much better attraction for cross channel travellers to call in to. And just as, if not more importantly, a much better place to live in.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
It's all demographics and catchment areas and a population that has still failed to hit pre-ww2 levels - as much as people think the council have magic fairy dusk and can tell prosperity and commerce to come to the town, in reality they can only try and facilitate it as best they can....
Other than that WE ALL have to do what we can to help it rather than just slag off the authorities from our arm-chairs....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
The worrying thing about Paul's post is he says he could fill Whitfield with retail and business units, I have to ask - well why don't you?
Create employment, collect rates, and divert the expansion into the town. We all know High Streets as we know them have changed forever, DDC offer no alternative.
I still stare everyday at a bombsite behind Castle Street
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
I would be very worried for the town centre if Paul and the DDC allowed more retail units up at Whitfield to happen.
David, I am very surprised that you seem to be interested in that happening given your interest in the Town Team or have I mis-read #324 where you seem to have divided opinions.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Jan, the govt is interested in regenerating High Streets which is great news. We applied to the Portas fund to do just that and as you know were unsuccessful so we're pressing on as best we can.
Whitfield is a part of Dover, as it grows it creates jobs in the area, these jobs mean people will spend money at the pubs and restaurants in the town. Look at Margate; Westwood Cross, the Turner Gallery, Dreamland being rebuilt, the Old Town area, it becomes a snowball effect.
As I say earlier, if DDC decides its role is to empty bins and keep lights on thats fine; its the constant hot air and no action that riles. If you've got the time read this whole thread and judge for yourself.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
have to disagree david, whitfield is a different entity to dover - any further development there would just more business away from dover town.
the only hope is for the dtiz to be completed and give the town a new look.
with regards to the regeneration of margate dreamland plans are mainly volunteer led and the turner gallery money came from outside. the latest plan there is for a tesco on the seafront, not my idea of regeneration.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Howard you're sounding like DDC prevaricating.
Dreamland cannot be funded by volunteers alone, Wayne Hemingway has just been appointed and he won't come cheap.
The cable car is funded externally.
Westwood is a similar distance to Mrgate as Whitfield/Dover, now they have a story to sell, a sales pitch.
Come to Westwood Cross, visit Dreamland, visit the Turner, stroll around the Old Town.
Ours is
Come to Dover Castle.
Someone, somewhere has done a better job than our lot.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
sounds like you haven't visited margate and ramsgate town centres recently david, ray makes a good point earlier about the damage done by outside forces many years ago that have nothing to do with the various administrations since.
another point has been raised by paul in 323, demographics are very important - we all hear people complain that there is no waitrose here. businesses like waitrose do their homework and locate where they will have more sales - hence hythe.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Surely Margate won their Portas bid because of what Westward Cross has done to the town centre in causing so many shops to close, I would hate that to happen to Dover.
I would love something NEW to draw the people to Dover rather than elsewhere but it would have to be something that is not available within a reasonable travelling distance. We badly need a well promoted leisure attraction that locals and visitors would want and could afford to visit more than once.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Actually Howard we visied the Turner Gallery earlier this year and the shops in the Old Town were very busy. Ramsgate marina is also thriving with many restaurants.
I really dont get your point Howard, earlier on the thread Roger Walkden says the DTIZ first came around in 2002, yep, 10 years ago. That says it all.
Guest 776- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 95
We badly need a well promoted leisure attraction that locals and visitors would want and could afford to visit more than once.
quote#330
White Cliffs Experience/Old Town Gaol.
DDC could not be bothered to persevere with these. In fact, what we paid for, was given, yes given, to York City.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
Jan, we suspect Westwood Cross has caused closure of a lot of shops in Margate because people give up trying to get past it, the traffic jams are the worst in Kent!
I agree with you about a leisure attraction, it's the one thing I have heard people moaning about since the 60s, and that was when we had three cinemas in the town.
We don't have a theatre apart from the small one in the Discovery Centre - we have been to a couple of good events there but there doesn't seem to be a regular program of productions. A multi-function entertainment venue like the
Horsebridge Centre in Whitstable is the one thing that was crying out to be included in DTIZ.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
How many locals went to White Cliffs Experience or Old Town Goal more than once or not at all if they did not like history or museums, besides I was talking about the future not the past.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Past is the past and we can't change it.
We need to get behind the current ideas and plans and actually do something to help. What is being said by Dovorians does nothing to help us outsiders that actually do our best to do help out the town
How about people campaign to persuade people to want to pay more council tax so that a difference can actually be made rather than moaning?
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ramsgate marina is indeed thriving david, i referred to the town centre though.
roger is correct in the year being 2012, also the year i moved here and i can remember the interest over who would be the anchor for the development.
when it became known it would be asda most people were not bothered but a vocal minority thought it would give the town a bad image.
the rest is history and now we move ahead with the new dtiz hopefully.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ms worsley
the white cliffs experience went south west not north.
ray is correct with the traffic congestion around westwood cross, i bet a few appointments at qeqm have been missed.
Guest 776- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 95
ms worsley
the white cliffs experience went south west not north.
The Town Gaol went north, but no matter, it all illustrates, yet another Balls UP
We are just very unlucky.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
david
re 328
dreamland cannot be visited as it is derelict and has a compulsory purchase order on it the same as the dtiz.
it is in the public domain that when building can eventually start kcc heritage lottery money will fund it the same as it did the turner gallery.
nothing to do with thanet council who judging by the stories we hear from there are incompetent beyond belief and use most of their time infighting or changing parties.
i'm not trying to big up ddc, i have criticised them on here many times but on many big issues the two parties are working together on many projects.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Howard this is the crux for me, Dreamland has been derelict for ages but its finally being redeveloped, along with Westwood and Turner Margate is being regenerated, as you say DESPITE the council.
You say the two parties are working together on many projects, I simply dont trust them to achieve anything. As I say earlier, they blame DHB, concillors blame officers and vice versa, Paul talks about "the market" and turning away business from Whitfield. On the opening page of this thread Peter Garstin claims planning is unfit for purpose, its impossible to disagree.