Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Keith, DOV/12/00440.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Lara and Alexander are correct the way forward is to work together to preserve Western Heights, an important NATIONAL ANCIENT MONUMENT in its ENTIRITY and also the ARTHURIAN AONB valley of FARTHINGLOE.
They are both major assets for Dover and as I have said before I agree with Peter Garstin's proposal that the Imperial War Museum should be asked to join in the discussions on WH's future - last time my posting was met with the usual derision.
Yesterday CPRE submitted their objections against the proposed CGI development and not only do they strongly condemn it but call for a Judicial Review.
Nearly, every time I have listed what appears to me as the violations of the various Planning legislation notably the NPPF and the Adopted LDF I have been met with accusations of liable!
The point is, at the moment the future for both WH and Farthngloe Valley's lies in the balance - the sites to be used for building for Dover's regeneration and by giving this permission DDC violate established planning laws so leave themselves wide open to legal attack ... as well as national condemnation for desecration.
Or do they deny permission ... AND future planning permission ... for wholesale desecration of both or most likely just one Farthingloe?
My understanding is that Lara, Alexander and Mike all concur with me that it is the second option that would be the most beneficial for Dover's future.
Lorraine
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i doubt the present cgi proposals have even a remote chance of being passed, what will be interesting to see is the amended one with some guarantees.
i feel sure that it has already beern prepared.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Lorraine shame you only like to congratulate 'your side' and have no respect for the efforts that the Western Heights Preservation Society and other groups have and will be putting into the future of the Heights
I have no problem with Peter's suggestion for the IWM, but to start with we need to continue talking to EH and build on existing bases before we run off to another organisation. If EH truely see the potential of the Heights and wanting to work with their partners we need to know how they intend to go forward. Perhaps CGI plans will make them realise their responsibilities.....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Going back many pages now to post #1089 where it was proposed that a constructive alternative was put together and then to post #1104; the question was posed re - EH and their apparent lack of care for the heritage, no money, little work from them, etc. and I did ask Alex whether he was a member of EH, I seem to remember from another thread that he said he was.
Surely it is vitally important that people opposed to the CGI developments who are members of the EH lobby their own organisation, agitate from within, organise other members of EH to tackle the lack of care shown for the heights by EH and then work in concert with EH and other organisations (such as the IWM, mentioned by Peter, WHPS, WCCP, etc.) to develop a funded and deliverable preservation and restoration programme. Harking back to previous undertakings that have not been honoured will not necessarily get those undertakings honoured today and certainly does not constitute a constructive alternative.
Not having a new funded plan to preserve the heights prepared in conjunction with EH, IWM, WHPS, etc. undermines the credibility of opposition to CGI proposals and makes it look like NIMBYism (please note that I am NOT saying that opposition to CGI is nimbyism) that will condemn the heights to a slow and painful destruction.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Some interesting comments on your blog Alexander-
http://celticbritannia.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/western-heights-and-farthingloe.html
"Lorraine Sencicle, a local Dover historian who has achieved outstanding results in saving the Western Heights from decay"
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
"Quite clearly, DDC Local Government is intent on permitting the selling off of areas of the White Cliffs of Dover to developers in return for money"
Areas? The only areas CGI doesn't own is that for the hotel...
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
""If given the go-ahead by DDC, the council will receive the New Homes Bonus fund - this is a levy on money raised from the development that can be spent on the District.""
Is this a bad thing ??
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Paul, I tried to keep this latest article on my blog top secret.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
So where are the areas that Lorraine "achieved outstanding results in saving the Western Heights from decay" - I'd like to see them ?????
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
alex is certainly a busy bloke with his writings, seems to be everywhere.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Writing vs doing.... ?
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
a trifle unfair paul, when vic was standing for election alex was seen carting loads of leaflets up and down the hills round here and has been very busy canvassing the maxton area in support of his views on the cgi issue.
all after a days graft.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
'Canvassing' from someone self-confessed as uninterested in reading the planning documentation..... ??
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
In reply to Neil's above appeal that I contact English Heritage, of which I am a member, I gave thought to the question, and came to the conclusion that Western Heights has potential to contribute to the local economy, and DDC could enhance this.
However, the interior of the Heights is an essential part of the Scheduled Ancient area and its infilling would be counter-productive.
If permission were granted, one of England's most renowned historic places would have been changed in its appearance for an unnecessary 94 houses. The location of these proposed houses is driven only by the land ownership of CGI and does not take into account the destructive consequences to the natural surroundings.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
As you can see, Paul, I have studied the planning application: it asks for the infilling of areas of the Scheduled Ancient Monument.
I also paid a visit to Little Farthingloe Farm, on Sunday, and the cider shop was closed, as too was the restaurant and even the ice-cream shop. I was thirsty and wanted something to drink.
At the same time, a family arrived ad also wanted to enter the restaurant. So visitors are interested in Farthingloe, and wish to see the area,
I also examined Big Farthingloe Farm from Folkestone road, and thought it would be an ideal area to place a visitors centre for exploring the Heights.
The centre could be dedicated to Ivanhoe of Farthingloe, who set out from Dover to bring a ransom for the release of King Richard, son of Henry Fiz Empress.
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Yesterday one of the gentlemen who is fighting hard to save the WHOLE of Western Heights and the AONB designated Arthurian Farthingloe valley from destructive unwanted development paid a visit to the council offices at Whitfield. While there he had a look at the submissions for and against the CGI proposal.
Of note the majority of those who supported the proposal tended to reiterate exactly what each other said. In fact they looked as if they had been copied from the same master copy.
When it came to those who objected ... these were considered, thoughtful and showed that the writers were genuinely concerned.
I say this because Paul, in his posting #1364 complains that I only congratulate 'our' side ... what is congratulate when there is nothing to congratulate?
In another posting #1371, Paul has another 'go' at me ... what have I achieved?
Well we could start with the outcome of the 1992/1993 Inquiry - but that has been rejected by Paul as old hat.
Nonetheless, besides WH being a scheduled Ancient Monument, it is a Conservation Area - a DDC designation with Government ratification - to protect the character and appearance of area. The Planning Inspectorate upholding objections to the Local Plan proposing housing and hotel development on Western Heights, wrote, 'Even if I could be persuaded that some developer could produce an exceptional scheme that would be suitable for the site I would still take the view that the allocation should not be made. I say that because once an allocation is made there is a limit to what a local planning authority can do to maintain special standards. This still holds, regardless what Paul, CGI or others would like to believe.
Then there is the Grand Shaft. CGI-HS p60 state that the Grand Shaft and adjacent site is in ' Poor condition and almost impassable access have however limited public enjoyment of Grand Shaft for many decades.' Following the above Public Inquiry, in 1995, there was a joint venture between DDC and KCC, in which I played a significant role, to build the impressive replica entrance to the Grand Shaft staircase and the refurbishment we see today.
During that time and after, there was the clearing up of the WHOLE of the heights by the WCCP of which I again played a major role ... I have already made these points clear in previous postings. Suffice to say that once I became ill with cancer and the WHPS was set up, my expertise was no longer wanted.
Farthingloe is a different proposition. It is a beautiful, AONB designated Arthurian valley that separates the town of Dover from Capel and Folkestone. Therefore, Capel retains its 'village' status rather than (part) being a suburb of Dover ... and long may that last.
When the sewage works there was planned, along with those who then lived in the valley, the folk of Maxton, CPRE, I participated in the discussions leading to the retaining of the valley's beauty as possible. I still feel as passionate about the valley as I did then.
Lorraine
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
1992 and it is now 2012 - where have the 'caring' people been for the last 20 years other than WHPS and WCCP?? Are you saying these groups are achieving nothing and shouldn't be congratulated on anything they have done??
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
"I also examined Big Farthingloe Farm from Folkestone road, and thought it would be an ideal area to place a visitors centre for exploring the Heights."
Slight logistical problem there Alexander !!
Been nice knowing you :)
Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA