Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Yes Ray - What EH has done at Tilbury is exactly what they SHOULD have done at Dover - they have had over twenty years and have taken a small fortune in profits from the Castle without ploughing a penny into Dover.
To say that Dover gets spin-offs from the Castle is purely 'my eye and Peggy Martin!'
Yes Barry ... if only ... but playing on Watty's comment ... Dover's Western Heights should have the money and the organisation to do something and as EH has reneged, surely DDC should take up the cudgel and make a determined application to an organisation such as the Lottery Fund?
The Western Heights Preservation Society does an excellent job under trying circumstances and, after all, Western Heights is a NATIONAL Monument
Lorraine
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Would DDC be able to apply for Lottery funding on something they are not responsible for, I would have thought very public pressure for a duty of care to EH via the media and MP, etc was their only option.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
agree pressure from charlie is probably the best way forward, they rarely reply to correspondence from the general public.
many of us wrote to them over the winter closures, i don't know of anyone getting a reply.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
What DDC can do Jan is help a registered group i.e. WHPS write a bid, support the bid & lobby extensively on their behalf.
Watty
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Paul/ Watty
That is the most positive reply I have read from DDC with regards to Western Heights since the days when John Clayton was the Chief Planning Officer!!!
If the Western Heights Preservation Society take this up
And English Heritage / Dover Town Council / Dover Society / Dover Chamber of Commerce / Dover Mercury and Dover Express all pull together
THEN perhaps this National Important Ancient Monument that is an essential part of Dover's history will not only be saved but would become a major tourist attraction on par with the Castle
As for CGI - there are plenty of brown field sites in Dover crying out to be developed: St James area / Connaught Barracks / Buckland Mill
Lorraine
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
The work on the old Buckland Mill site is now coming on at great speed .
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
Lorraine I am not getting involved with any campaigning that detracts from opportunities that brings the Western Heights back to life and offers economic benefits to Dover.
I had said DDC will assist by helping to write a bid if asked & substantial match funding can be obtained from others sources to really attack the heritage needs & delivers economic growth.
The status quo or just dealing with the Drop Redoubt does not deliver that objective.
Economic growth & dealing with the heritage need go together and are DDC's imperative.
We will work with English Heritage to achieve both objectives & respect the countryside to maximise its potential. All organisations need to be flexible to achieve this project.
I hope this is perfectly clear.
To conclude DDC or myself will not put ourselves in a position that pre judges a planning application.
Watty
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
sue n,wrong end of town.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
lorraine mentioned it in terms of brown field development brian, susan pointed out that work was already taking place.
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Yes, Lorraine did mention brown field sites - and certainly on one, Buckland Mill site, after standing empty for ten years looks as though something is going to happen. During those ten years, the development was being managed by SEERA at a horrendous cost to the taxpayer.
The Connaught Barracks site became empty and we were going to have a major ecological development, no doubt this has cost we tax payers a pretty penny so far - especially as nothing has happened.
Then we come to the St James Development - the catalyst for Dover's regeneration with £'000s spent on consultant fees and empty promises - what are we left with? Potholes and a MOTEL (not hotel) - people won't be stopping there for an extended stay in Dover.
Returning to Western Heights is scheduled under the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979 as amended as it appears to the Secretary of State to be of national importance.
The Reasons for Designation:
The fortifications at Western Heights survive well as a series of earthworks, brick, and masonry structures, which will retain archaeological evidence relating to the adaptation and development of their defences over more than 150 years. The remains represent the largest, most elaborate and impressive surviving example of early 19th century fortification in England. Together with other contemporary defensive works at Archcliffe Fort, Fort Burgoyne and Dover Castle, Western Heights provides an insight into the continuing military importance of Dover during the 19th and 20th centuries. In addition, the
Roman lighthouse, the medieval chapel and the field terracing will retain archaeological remains relating to the earlier occupation of the headland. The use of parts of the monument for recreational activities and the provision of history and nature trails give it importance as a public amenity and a valuable educational resource.
And DDC complain they have no money yet can find £20,000 to pay the legal fees in order to give expand CGI's site portfolio ... this is a National Monument
Lorraine
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
got it now howard.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#341 - EH match funded millions for the Keep, Secret Wartime Tunnels, Visitor Centre and Officers' Mess projects.
Match funding is the key to any restoration of the Heights - where do you propose WHPS get the millions of pounds of match funding that it requires ??
Been nice knowing you :)
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
I have done the Euromillions this evening.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Me too Jan , fight you for the jackpot ?
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
Sorry Paul, neither of us won tonight but there is always Tuesday.
Prize breakdown
Fri 11 May 12 Draw 484
Results for all balls including Lucky Stars
01 13 17 38 44, 02 11
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
no no you two,thats my pension fund.
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Welcome back Paul.
Yesterday it was brought to my attention that the Dover Express had carried out a poll on whether to build houses or not on Western Heights ... As one would anticipate when the opposition is only allowed cursory letters in that paper on the subject such polls are fundamentally flawed.
The Dover Society Executive which not only made up of councillors - one of whom is also the Chair of their Planning Committee and used that position to enable CGI to make a representation that was denied to the 'Opposition', they also have a key journalist from the Dover Express!
I say this, for as you will remember Paul - and you reiterated within this Forum - those who oppose the CGI proposals, as they have been presented to date, were dogmatically told to wait until the final plans were presented before they/we are allowed our say!
Thank goodness, Paul Boland, editor of the Dover Forum, is not a bigot!
Concerning the Dover Express, back in 2008, I was in a position to put forward the case - for a Community Hospital in Dover similar to that in Deal - through the legal system. I won the case and the East Kent PCT (reluctantly) agreed to ring-fence £20m for it!!!
For reasons, beyond my ken, the Dover Express not only refused to publish these facts they, along with Dover Town Council and a number of Dover Councillors, actually supported marches through Dover - AGAINST the proposition! Therefore, we have ended up with very little and that is likely to be taken from us.
Western Heights is of National importance and to desecrate in the way, so far envisaged by China Gateway, is on par with Pol Pot regime desecration of national monuments in nearby (to China) Cambodia. Indeed, a poll carried out not long ago by the Dover Society - agreed.
However, those with power have already made up their minds to trample over what those folks and we really want but need to show that THEIR decision is democratic - hence a sham has been created.
It is of interest, in this case, that CGI besides standing for China Gateway International also stands for computer-generated imagery!
Lorraine
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
all though there is a proposal to build some housing/hotel conferance etc,but the question will it go ahead or not.if so will the cash come forward to do it as well as the drop redoubt/grand shaft,or is this all hot air.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Lorraine
you have some interesting views although maybe a bit misguided sometimes(thats the polite side of me lol)
taking your points in brief;
1; I'm no fan of the express but did you complain to them if you feel they were
not impartial on the content on this subject? if so what was the reply?
2; There are a lot of concerns over building on the heights from a large number
of people not just yourself
3; The hospital, is another issue but whilst you raised it, from what iu saw
a number of differing views came forward and the allocation of the £20m
came forward, not because of just your views, but because of the population
at large had lobbied them fore better facilities for Dover, sadly they also
played a trump card by allowing 2 or 3 prominent groups to fight each
other, thus then saying, well even you cant agree with each other
so there you have it
it was a great cop out for them, but helped by differing views unable or
unwilling to come together.
there said my bit lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 659- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 331
The Dover Express did not carry out a poll. I wrote about the results of the public consultation carried out by CGI. The consultation was open to anyone who wanted to comment online or at the roadshows.