Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Places, people and principles have had to change in the past and there is no difference now or we might all still be living in mud huts.
We must change or stay static or decline, I see nothing wrong so long as the changes are sympathetic to the area.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
"all going to disappear under executive housing, with executive price tags?"
From the plans I see there are limited developments that cover a small fraction of the huge area that the Heights covers. As I have mentioned if it is going to see the whole Heights 'concreted over' as some people seem to thing I will be first to fight it. It is a delicate balance that we need to do right
Been nice knowing you :)
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
301
jan are they???
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Balance indeed Paul.
Overstating and exaggeration by opponents of any development up there does not help an informed intelligent discussion. I am quite sure if it was "all going to disappear under executive housing, with executive price tags?" or indeed 'affordable housing' many of us supporting development would not be doing so.
I cannot however let the 'dig' at 'executive housing' go without a comment not necessarily specific to the Western Heights development - it is exactly that kind of housing Dover needs to help regeneration and to improve the demographs. It seems to me though that any element of housing that may appear on the western heights would be better suited to very low intensity executive housing than any high intensity development even if just for the sake of the historical remains.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
The post sent in by Lorraine on the developers "wanting to invest in Dover", together with a recent article on Sky News about land fraud banks, prove how developers and the housing market work: Land is purchased at a relatively low price, divided into lots, and sold to developers for a huge profit.
When everyone has finished making their speculation profit, a home purchaser ends up paying a life-time mortgage on a house that has been valued to satisfy the greedy gains of greedy speculators.
Somehow, Paul thinks that greedy speculators would invest tens of millions of pounds every 10 years into maintaining old stuff up on Western Heights, finding this money from the building of hundreds of houses and a hotel + a mega World War memorial.
My bet is that the developers would flog the land and houses off at speculative prices and then turn round and prove to Paul that they have no obligation to invest "£20 million" (Paul's quoted figure) to mess about with old stuff from the Napoleonic defences.
They would probably declare insolvency even if they did invent some sort of contract to replace two tumbled down bricks one on the other. But not before flogging off the land with new houses.
Then Paul and Chris would be telling everyone that insolvency on the part of the developer (after flogging off the land and new houses) was beyond anyone's control and prevision.
Let's look at Chris's view through the same pair of glasses: Chris and Paul looked on in despair as earth was shoveled into the moats, the problem was solved, it all became a Green Area with no need to invest £20 million every ten years into miles of trenches.
This seems to be my latest view now, have given up arguing with developers and their supporters.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
I'll be intriguiged to know Lara - would you advocate the demolition of the existing houses to return it back to how it should be and undo the previous "damage" ??
I may do some calculation myself as to whether there was more 'concreted over' before the demolitions of the 1960s than there would be with the new developments. I have been looking at the old photos of Grand Shaft Barracks, South Front Barracks, various married quarters, church, stable blocks, school, etc, etc and there are a lot less buildings than there used to be when there was barracking for thousands of men and families...
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Paul, that were the days when Britain had an Empire in India, Africa and the Far East. The barracks served their purpose, were knocked down, and the MoD closed all the other barracks on W H too. They forgot to shovel the moats in.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 750- Registered: 12 Apr 2012
- Posts: 72
Paul, actually I do agree with you there - huge damage was done when the original houses were built and am I sure that if this was happening now there would have been even more opposition to it, buildings were demolished willy nilly because they were deemed unsafe, gravestones have been used to help foundations for the houses in Knights Templars, the mediaeval well has only just been discovered up there as it started caving in! Yes, wouldn't it be lovely to still have it all, wouldn't it have been nice to have stopped the development?................ sadly all done before the history was realised, as has happened in various other towns and before the area was recognised as an Ancient Monument.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Alexander - I am not going to explain everything to you again in 5 year olds language as you cannot get a grip of anything ANYONE says to you. You get a straightforward answer from someone which you continually twist round and misquote to create yourself another new non-arguement.
I am also sure CGI wouldn't be particularly happy with you suggesting that they are anything to do with "land fraud banks"......
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Intrigued by "gravestones have been used to help foundations" as I wasn't aware there were any burials at or around the Garrison Chapel ?? Be interested to know more.....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Given that hardly any enduring architecture of quality has been built since the first Planning Act of 1909;
- would much of our national inventory of heritage sites exist if planning restrictions had been in place a thousand years ago?
- is there any possibility now that any such works might happen in the future?
- if Castle Hill were still a bare mound, would Her Majesty now be granted planning permission by DDC? I doubt it.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 750- Registered: 12 Apr 2012
- Posts: 72
Will gladly embellish - dad dug down many years ago to dig his potatoes and hit a gravestone - locally believed to have been from a local church (not necessarily the garrison church) I will get the full story for you.
Guest 750- Registered: 12 Apr 2012
- Posts: 72
You may also be interested in some old maps I have of the area.
Guest 750- Registered: 12 Apr 2012
- Posts: 72
Barry, once building permission is acheived - land will be sold on and will be a free for all - not overstating, merely stating.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Any permissions granted will be subject to a requirement to perform architectural digs and surveys on the site. I would bet on both Bronze and Iron Age settlements having been up there, possibly even Neolithic. That is when it will get interesting.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Lara - sold on or not it is still subject to the planning permissions granted.
Guest 750- Registered: 12 Apr 2012
- Posts: 72
Well no point in staying quiet until then is there? - apparently going up for planning in around two weeks - info given to Braddon resident from CGI last week.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Lara, I'd certainly be interested in seeing some old maps of the area. Could you make them public domain?
