Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
Howard -
re the Tilmanstone litter-pick.
I don't think this followed the government's Big Society idea, but the Parish Council thought it would help to clear some of the litter as we don't have a man come round to do it.
And it was very successful. It certainly brought the community together again and was worth the effort.
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
thanks for info kath, sounds like you have a strong community spirit there, much more likely in a village than a large town or city.
my main concern is that apathy will set in when a few volunteers see that the majority will not join in.
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
Howard - yes, I do agree - a community spirit is usually much stronger in villages. But it is often the 'older' generation which volunteers to help first !
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that gets back to my original criticism of the big society thing, at present it is mostly retired people that do the volunteering.
with people in the future working into their seventies it does not augur well for the third sector.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Bary, when Adam dalf, and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?
That's all I can say in reply. Nothing else comes to me.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Don't understand that statement/question Alexander - what does it mean ?
Howard - I agree that many community volunteers will become disillusioned when they see the majority of people don't want to get involved, or help in any way.
This can be likened to the Priory Forum; we are trying to do a clean-up of the Clarendon Alleys. Gone are the days when you just get on with it.
We have got a number of "bodies" on board, but we need cleaning equipment; we also need funding to pay for the collection vehicle; there's the need for health and safety and a risk assessment.
We also need to contact everybody who lives either side of the alleyways, letting them know what we want to do and could they help us by putting their (non-household) rubbish in the alley so we can take it away - we can't take it if it is on their land.
I could say "it's doin' my 'ead in", but frustration at the speed of progress is certainly very high.
Many people know what we're trying to do, but do they care, or give a fig ? Seems not.
Roger
Guest 697- Registered: 13 Apr 2010
- Posts: 622
I think the "Big Society" is going the same way as "Back to Basics"! Why do politicians insist on coming up with these ideas? They should focus on delivering the policies that promote stronger communities, not vague concepts that no one really understands and are totally undeliverable.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Kevin - there is indeed a huge difference between what was no more than a slogen, back to basics and doing what you are suggesting, delivering policies that promote stronger communities, loosely labelled 'big society'. It seems that you do 'get it' but perhaps dont realise it!!
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
Barry surely "back to basics" was a Conservative initiative to highlight and tackle law and order, education and public morality. It was an attempt by Major to relaunch the party following their inability to manage the public finances in the wake of Black Wednesday.
The initiative was an unmitigated disaster and backfired on Major, the Conservative Party preaching morality was akin to Hitler supporting human rights. The press had a field day, sleazy affairs were exposed, sexual deviancy and immorality in high places. When it came to family values the Conservatives suddenly discovered that they were no better than Mrs.Smith living with Mr Jones in a council flat. Things still haven't changed.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I think the label is the problem. Different people interpret the label differently, particularly the vast majority who didn't bother to read the details.
Big Society is not just about volunteering, and it is absolutely not about volunteers replacing paid workers. That is a devious misrepresentation deliberately spread by the Left-leaning media.
There are three shining examples of Big Society happening here in Dover: the TSS Dover initiative, the Dover War Memorial Project and the People's Port. These are examples of citizens banding together to initiate or take over enterprises that the State either doesn't run for the benefit of the community or doesn't want to do at all, and to operate them on a not-for-profit basis for the benefit of the town and its heritage.
If the WHPS were to organise itself more entrepreneurially it could also be an example.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Dave1 - not specially Conservative vices but human ones and whatever sleeze we had in the 'dog-days' of the Major regime Labour really showed us all new heights of sleeze - the point is that whatever it was meant to be 'back to basics' in the hands of John Major was no more than an empty slogan. Big Society is different to that, Peter is spot-on.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Roger, I'm referring to how Barry explains that cuts have to be introduced into society, while the super-rich are suposed to be untouchables, those with private assets that resemble a state-budget. (I'm not talking about company, but private-individual assets).
At that rate, only a rift can appear in society, no matter what definition one uses, "big society" or other.
It's where compromising starts to end, because Barry's views on the super-rich on one side, who are untouchables, and the vast part of society on the other who must bear with cuts without end, only lead to this one result: that which I posted above.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
totally agree with dave1 on this one, we elect politicians to run the economy, keep law and order etc.
preaching to us about we run our lives is unacceptable unless they are as pure as the driven snow.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
The fact is there is nothing new in the so-called "Big Society", there have been volunteers and the banding together of citizens to take over unwanted enterprises for many years, Cameron simply chooses to give it a name which has confused people to the point where they neither care or have any desire to find out what it means.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I totally agree that it is the label. I would like someone to define what society is, then try and belittle the idea of governance.
I find it hilarious the idea of anybody saying: 'don't rely on us to tell you what to do, you need to do this instead'
In terms of giving it a suitable title, all that is required is an adjective followed by a noun. I suggest 'massive joke'
I've said it before, if Mr Cameron can't convey these ideas to the people he is governing, then perhaps he is not up to the job. Perhaps as citizens we should band together and do it for him!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
"Perhaps as citizens we should band together and do it for him!" Like the Big Society, eh Darren ?
As per my post number 66, we (the Priory Forum) have tried to take over responsibility for things that officialdom should/could be doing, but find it very slow going - partly through red-tape, but partly though apparant apathy of the very people we are trying to help.
Does this mean should all resign and let someone else have a go at it, or call it something else in the hope it engenders some more support.
Roger
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
It looks from the postings that not to many posters are convinced of the conservatives big society concept.
Peter, i would realy love to find these left leaning newspapers, the majority are right wing.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Daily Mirror and Guardian, Keith. And I didn't say newspapers, I said media. That includes much of the BBC.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The Independent also has a broadly left approach to issues as does The Observer.
Guest 650- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 542
Thank you, Peter, for that lovely comment above. Indeed, when we first began The Dover War Memorial Project on Remembrance Day 2005, the concept was that it would be a community thing, involving as many people as possible. I'm very pleased to say that we now have supporters and helpers, all volunteers, in Dover and across the globe - the Big Society probably doesn't get much bigger than that!
We've made so many friends, and an interesting side effect I've found from all our voluntary work with the DWMP is - and contrary to perhaps a philosophy of a modern world, where in our culture there are strong elements and aspirations of instant fame and riches by use of the media, and calculatory discussions (for example, rights, legal interchanges, etc) - that a real fulfilment and joy comes from not taking but giving.
That fulfilment, and indeed a sense of community pride and place and worth hasn't just touched Simon and me, but many others too, including those with whom we work. (I shall never forget, as just one example, the brilliant performance by St Martin's on last year's 90th anniversary of the homecoming of the Unknown Warrior, and the confidence of the young people taking part, who had learnt so much about their school and our local heritage - nor the absolute pleasure in being with them at Westminster Abbey.)
Thank you too, Peter and Kathryn, for being the hosts (and so accommodating) at the CAMRA presentation last week. We had a great evening (and oh, the lovely food!)