Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
As the chap was wanted for murder in his own country with murder being a criminal offense in his country and in ours and he wasn't being hounded because of his colour, creed, political views, social standing, ethnic origin or sexual orientation (unlike our French friends fleeing the Terror), it seems to me that this particular chap should face a fair trial and, if convicted, find that his criminal action has forfeited him his right. The example that you quote seems to have no correlation to the French aristos fleeing the terror.
Just my opinion - All genuine rights are balanced by responsibilities or they are not genuine rights.
I have a right to freedom of speech and thought - I have a responsibility to exercise that right in a manner that does not impinge upon your right to the same thing.
I have a right to freedom of religion - I have a responsibility to exercise that right in a manner that does not detract from your right to the same thing.
I have a right to freedom of assembly - I have a responsibility to exercise that right in a way that does not damage your property or ability to exercise any of your rights
etc. and so on.
It is not for me to determine what rights are genuine, as far as I'm concerned, if it costs you nothing (not just monetarily) for me to exercise it responsibly, then it could be considered a right.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
A hypothetical case.
An illegal immigrant who has escaped from prison having been convicted for multiple murders manages to settle down with a new family and provides for them using the black economy and theft.
A family member of yours is then murdered by this escaped convicted murderer from a country that has the death penalty. He is caught, tried and sentenced to prison with deportation at the end of his sentence. He appeals deportation using his new family as the reason and wins. A few years after his release from prison he murders again............
Does anybody on this forum really think this is a scenario we should accept all because of his human rights, I know I do not.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
According to some you're racist Jan
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#46
Two things on this...
-I doubt even as things stood prior to 1998 he would have been sent 'home' to face execution.
-Apart from the deportation issue, is there anything that would have saved the second murder victim?
I am not arguing for the status-quo, but against the idea that one wrong fixes another wrong.
What we, each and all, as citizens must guard against is the assumption that an ill-defined proposal is set to cure one's perceived wrong and create no greater harm.
The tabloid headlines play upon the MP as the injustice itself plays upon the public (part of which are constituents), but is the proposed fix set to correct the injustice or merely to get the tabloid headlines to favour the MP?
At the core of CE's proposal is the supremacy of Parliament, which is another purely emotive issue, devoid of substance.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
disagree with your last line tom, however useless our leaders in parliament are they were put there by us.
doesn't say too much about us though.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
One of Barry's blogs recently was about liberals. They believe in freedom of speech as long as they can control it.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
Tom, I did not say he had been sentenced to death just that the country had the death penalty.
If he had been deported he would not be in the country to murder anybody.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Howard #49
Firstly, there is The Separation of Powers:Executive;Legislative;Judicial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers#United_Kingdom
Secondly, The Supremacy of Parliament. Except for the EU and the hundreds of letters, advisory and instructional, that emanate from the foot of the Mall.
By the by, We have Anti-Terrorism Legislation - go explain that to Iceland. We also have a 'snoopers charter' that was to be of great help to us, but as a tool in the box of Local Government it was not left idle long.
Such things should not be messed with to avoid tabloid headlines and/or to pander to the 'Little Englanders'.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
haha Little Englanders
Thats racism and little Englanders out of the way, all we need now is xenophobia and Tom has his Guardianista full house
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Sorry Brian you've lost me
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
brian
home grown terrorists get consigned to stir, the argument is about what happens to visiting ones.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
37, Tom, sensible news reporting and tabloid headlines are not the same.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
lost me totally with 58 brian.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
I'm pretty sure that home grown criminals get tried and sentenced here, serve their time, do the probationary period afterwards and then, having served their time and being rehabilitated go on to live fruitful productive lives as model citizens, or, having not been rehabilitated, commit more crime get caught, tried, sentenced and locked up again. No suggestion has been raised since the Victorian era (or shortly thereafter) that our homegrown crims get sent anywhere once their time has been served.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
brian i will type this slowly, no-one to my knowledge has suggested that we deport u.k. criminals.
for one thing no country would want them.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
no i don't brian.
take the scenario that you sign up for global jihad and commit atrocities whilst in their employ, you would spend time doing porridge but would then be free to go home. there is the possibility that chris would terminate your forum membership though.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
We are stuck with the homegrown ones - they're homegrown.
Ones that arrive in our country from outside seeking refuge here and then betray that hosptality become unwelcome guests and ought to be returned to their own home.
Same principle applies in a domestic setting - my own kids misbehave and they get punished, but I have to put up with them afterwards 'cause they're my kids. Someone else's kids come round my house and misbehave, they're shown the door quick smart and not invited back again.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Would you throw him out mid sleep-over, in the small hours, to find his way home in the rain across country...and brook no imputations of impropriety Neil, when his body washes up in the harbour days later?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
