Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Ross.
Thanks.
Myself and thousands of others would have much preferred never to have gone on strike and it was only when I was convinced that there was no alternative that I took that action. I don't regret taking that action as sometimes people have to stand up and fight for what you believe is right, what I did not do, was go on strike because Scargill told me to.
I never looked up to our leadership.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Likewise - as a branch secretary I had the unenviable task of taking my members out on strike - not something I ever wanted to do, but we were given no option by the intransigence of the management. Thankfully it wasnt for long and it was off the back of a massive 80%+ vote in favour of action and it achieved what we sought which was the management coming back to the table and negotiating with us.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
I moved overseas in 1978 when my marginal rate of tax hit 83% under the Callaghan government and I was working in Kuwait during the Falklands war and the miners' strike period. As a result I was not immersed in the events of the day (there being no Internet in those days). In spite of being a man of Kent I am therefore somewhat ignorant of what went on - can someone recommend a truly unbiased book about the Kent coalfields and the miners' strikes?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
I suspect you would have to buy two books, one for each viewpoint and make up your own mind about the truth regarding the strike. I have spoken to knowledgeable people on both sides and am still not sure what is truth and what is fiction.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
You are right Jan, I fear. There is not a subject on earth on which opinion is more polarised. In Aylesham and Elvington there are still families who are ostracised for having been 'scabs' during the disputes.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
House of Commons statement by Mr Cameron at PMQ's.``I have isolated myself totally from the BSkyB matter``
ie.Jemey Hunt has been left to deal with a very important matter ??
How many other ministers are left to deal with important matters?
An MD of a company supports and reprimands his board directors as and when necessary.
He always has total control/knowledge of all important matters.The Buck stops there.
Leadership is necessary and required at all times.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter.
A CIVIL WAR WITHOUT GUNS -20 YEARS ON
KEN SMITH
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
An interesting quote from a synopsis of the book:
"The crucial factor in the strike's ultimate defeat was the treacherous, cowardly role of the trade union and Labour leaders, who consciously sabotaged the possibility of miners' victory."
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Gary - I know nothing about your personal role in that strike. What I do know about is about the intimidation, violence and thuggery of the pickets and flying pickets to those miners who went to work. For that the strikers deserve contempt. It happened in Dover, there was something about a house in East Cliff being vandalised because the occupant wanted to work.
Did you speak out against that intimidation and did you oppose the violence on the picket line? Did you argue in favour of the right of those who wanted to work to do so? If you did then you personally would deserve my respect even if you was on strike yourself.
The police had a duty to prevent breaches of the peace and to help those who wish to work go about their lawful way. They did what they needed to do and should have done.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Reg - post #46.
You are mixing up leadership with management - very different things. A leader does not have to get involved with the detailed decisions of Ministers.
Brown might have done better if he led instead of trying to micromanage everything and overule his ministers. It was these tendancies that make him the worse PM of the modern era. Add that to his appalling record as Chancellor, the man has a lot to answer for.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barryw,same job differant title ok.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
No Brian - they are very different jobs and are complimentary, a leader needs good managers reporting to him.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
A leader sets the strategy, the managers carry it out. Different skill sets required for the two roles. This is why many organisations recruit leaders from outside, they may have excellent managers but managers seldom make a successful transition to leadership. Some organisations however take elite managers and groom them for leadership by sending them off to do an MBA.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Barry
did you speak out against the police (Metropolitan in some cases) waving bundles of notes (from the overtime that the strike afforded them) at the wives of striking miners knowing they did not have enough money to buy food for their families. Did you Speak out against the beating up of pickets by the police? Did you speak out against the police removing their numbers on their tunics so that they could not be identified? Did you speak against the use of troops (dressed as police) to carry out some of these duties?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Mark - I am not aware of any of that being proven other than allegation from the strikers. But, of course unprofessional behaviour by individual officers in such situations should be condemned. No doubt tempers flared among the police in a very difficult situation and some may well have retaliated, they are only human. The situation would not have occurred at all if the strikers behaved peacefully in the first place and did not use violence and threats against working miners.
The wives of course would have had money for food if their husbands went to work - their choice.
As for troops wearing police uniform - another allegation but if they did, fair enough, the police clearly were under pressure and needed help. Seems sensible to bring in another disciplined service to help and wearing military uniform might not have been a good idea.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
interesting if it is true that troops were used against the miners.
today the government tells us that troops will not be used to protect the citizens and their property.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
Following on from Peter's post #53 maybe that is why the police top management level seems to be in such turmoil at the moment.
Barry do you realise how blinkered and heartless you come across in your last post, either that or you choose your words and phrasing badly.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
Blinkered and heartless? you have just made his day!!
Audere est facere.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Jan, the Peter Principle is at work:
"The Peter Principle states that "in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence", meaning that employees tend to be promoted until they reach a position at which they cannot work competently. It was formulated by Dr. Laurence J. Peter and Raymond Hull in their 1969 book The Peter Principle, a humorous treatise which also introduced the "salutary science of hierarchiology."
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Jan -I merely state the facts as they are or were.
Sorry if it seems heartless what I say but one of the problems we have today is that too many people are scared to speak the plain facts in case of appearing that way. I prefer plain speaking.
How many of those rioting yobs behave that way because their mummys tell their little darlings all about their rights rather than the hard facts of personal responsibility and that the world does not owe them a living.