Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
17 November 2010
22:2880604Barry you are getting off the subject yet again, tackle the issue you raised about us having the worst healthcare in the developed world. You were wrong, admit to that one and we have a basis to discuss the other points you raise but as a taster the same report states that life expectancy in the UK is higher than that of Germany and the US.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
17 November 2010
23:0880613Yet again Barry chooses to ignore certain questions and as per usual his opinion is the one we, who actually use the service, are supposed to accept. I give up there is no point in replying to someone with a closed mind.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
17 November 2010
23:3380619dave1 seems to lead this argument, i trust the world health organisation to deliver an unpartisan review.
on a personal level i have a lot of personal experience of the n.h.s in recent years(not just me, loved ones too), there may be many malingerers there.
my view is that frontline staff are worth their weight in gold, cannot say the same about the bankers with their bonuses.
Alec Sheldon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,037
18 November 2010
00:0080625I have no complaints with the NHS at all. Last year, 14th. Oct. I had a PSA blood test which is a test for prostate cancer and it turned out to be quite high. I had a bone scan on 28th. Oct. followed by a biospy on 30th. Oct. and saw a consultant on 16th. Nov. who confirmed that I had prostate cancer and commenced treatment immediately. So from blood test and all the other tests to treatment took four weeks. Not bad in my book.
The hip replacement that I had in June took a little longer. From seeing the consultant to having the operation took about three and a half months. I received a letter on discharge from the hospital telling me that the operation had cost £13,000 and to look after it giving me a list of things to do and not to do along with some exercises. The hip operation was the best thing I have ever had done as I had been in agony for 12 months with sciatica and pain fron the hip degeneration. I have got no pain at all now.
The prostate treatment took place at Kent & Canterbury and the hip operation at William Harvey at Ashford. I have nothing but praise for both hospitals.
Thank you N.H.S.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 November 2010
00:0780626excellent post alec, looks like all your n.i. payments over the years have borne fruit when it was needed.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 November 2010
07:3680642Dave - You do not deny any of my specific critisisms of the NHS system, you seem happy to accept the serious flaws in the NHS. I am not - I think we deserve better.
Jan - once I shared your blinkered rose coloured vision of the NHS being wonderful and was willing to accept what I was told. I have changed my mind, hardly a closed mind. Perhaps you should open yours.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
18 November 2010
08:2180643Dave1/Jan
You can see our barryw will contnue to take the political line.
even though posters have given facts where the UK stands better than other countres, as personal cases.
I to have indicated all the hospitals visited/.
yep, it 's nor perfect, but improvement is the way forward not a 2 tier system thats wanted by baz
one for those that pay
and an inferior one for those of that cant
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
18 November 2010
08:4380650kieth,trying to convince someone about certain things is like banging your head against a brick wall to cure a headache.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 November 2010
09:1080651That is how I feel Brian - people are blind to critisism of the NHS but it is time to open people's eyes to the fact that there are alternatives. These alternatives are better and can produce better care for everyone.
We dont have to put up with waiting lists, ill-equipped hospitals, drug rationing and central dictat.
The NHS was the first system of socialised medicine, those that followed did not copy it but learned from our mistakes. Time to learn from them.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
18 November 2010
11:2380668Barry you simply don't get it, I am at this juncture neither condemning or praising the NHS I am requesting that you qualify your statement that we have the worst health care in the developed world
Where are the facts you are relying upon and are you seriously suggesting that the healthcare in Romania, Bulgaria and Estonia are superior to ours?
Now, perhaps, you will answer my original question based upon a statement you made and cease trying to cloud the issue.
Alec Sheldon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,037
18 November 2010
12:4180671Barry, am I invisible on this site, didn't you read my post about the excellent treatment that I received from the N.H.S. or do you choose to ignore any thing good being said about the N.H.S. ?.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
18 November 2010
12:4780672Alec
you have noticed that our barryw has rose tinted glasses, and you have now come to realise.
It's fair to say we have all had good service from the NHS but recognise it can be improved.
But not dismantled
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 November 2010
13:0280676i would love to know how an insurance based system would mean that everyone would be entitled to the same standard of care.
stands to reason that those paying the highest premiums would automatically get the best treatment and shortest waiting times.
18 November 2010
13:1980677It's a balance. I remember when I was having one of our children (can't remember which) and in the hospital - which was average I guess, based on my experiences of several births including 4 live ones - was an American woman who was astonished that she didn't have a private room with cable TV, and that the nurses didn't jump when she (literally) clicked her fingers! I suppose that, on a finite budget (as we are constantly reminded we have in the NHS) I would opt for good medical care rather than the frills. Howard - yes, the highest premiums would attract the best treatment. I am currently involved in a situation with a medical professional who is charm and quality for his private patients but treats the vulnerable adults who he treats on contract to me via our local PCT (not Kent) like crap. He will probably be moved on, but it isn't that simple, and it indicates the risks in private vs public budgets.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
18 November 2010
13:1980678Howard
you are correct, it will become a two tier system, and we cannot afford to let it happen
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,894
18 November 2010
18:4080707-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
18 November 2010
18:4580709Dave1/Jan/Alec
YOU are all correct, and don't worry that barryw doesn't wish to see the alternative to his blinkered views
Long live the NHS
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Alec Sheldon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,037
18 November 2010
18:4680710Jan,
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 November 2010
19:0380719Well I have just visited this thread for the first time since my last post so be patient people. Interesting to see how personal attacks emerge when we discuss and challenge the 'holy of holies' and that is what is wrong with this country and why no-one who wants to get elected will dare to suggest the kind of reforms that would bring British healthcare up to the best in the world.
The fact is I am the 'radical' here challenging received wisdom. We have all be taught that the welfare state is wonderful and the NHS is the best in the world - well that is simply not the case. Blind acceptance of that is what fossilises these services because no-one dare speak out and offer a different view, politicians challenging this received wisdom are playing with fire. That is not healthy - we need to be questioning the system but whenever there is a challenge we get a hysterical defence of the status quo.
Dave - I would not describe Estonia, for instance, as a major developed country. You claim I have not answered your questions but you have not challenged what I said about waiting lists/ drug rationing/ cancer survival rates and so on - it works both ways.
There are countries where there are no waiting lists for treatment for instance - do we not deserve the same? I say we do and a system where there are such lists is simply not good enough and it needs to be challenged.
Why on earth should we just accept such poor service? Why should we not question and challenge the system that is guilty of delivering such a service? It has to be the system that is at fault - simply because in my experience, yes Jan I have such experience, the staff working in that system are highly motivated caring people.
I am not the one blinkered here Jan. I have opened my eyes and I am questioning. Once I thought in a similar way to you and that a spot of tinkering might be enough to address the shortcomings. But no, it does not - masses of cash have been ploughed in yet we still have waiting lists and drug rationing for instance, so cash is not the answer.
Is it perhaps you who is blinkered, accepting the status quo? Accepting that waiting lists are natural and normal, accepting NICE judgements on cancer drugs, accepting the below average number of MRI scanner in British hospitals....
I fear that the present government will not be radical enough in reforming the system and the result will be more of the same.
Oh - Alec - I did not respond to that simply because we can all speak of excellent treatment through the NHS, me included. That is not the point and does not change the fact that the NHS system has many shortcomings.
18 November 2010
19:0580722Why does someone who has a different view have to be dubbed "blinkered"? And I am a fervent supporter of the NHS and medical and nursing care for everyone based on need not cost - but even I can see it isn't working!! I don't want to scrap it and I certainly don't want it donated to the private sector (despite a somewhat vested interest!!) but I do want to see it overhauled and appropriately re-designed to meet current needs not historic needs.
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