howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
16 November 2010
21:3080354not very healthy though, the east kent and coastal primary health care trust are facing a 19 million quid overspend this financial year, they are telling g.p's not to refer patients with non urgent conditions to consultants.
main losers will be those awaiting hip or knee replacements, tonsils removal and cataracts.
16 November 2010
21:3780355Heard same from 87 yr old friend on Isle of White yesterday. Queue for cataracts.
Since under a World Bank program we managed a total of 15.35 million cataract operations in India between 1999-2002 it seems a bit pathetic.
However I'm sure that we are much better off overall spending our 'hard earned' cash on plasma TVs (whatever they are).
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
16 November 2010
21:3980357Mr Frost, you are being unkind there.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
16 November 2010
22:0980362bob
i fail to understand the connection between plasma televisions and health overspends.
just to put your mind at rest i do not know what a plasma television is either.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
16 November 2010
22:1080364OK - no-one rose to the bait a few days ago.... see if they do now....
Lets get rid of the NHS.
Despite a lot of hard working and committed people it is THE worse healthcare provider of any developed country.
Privatise the whole Stalinist mess. Lets have an insurance based system - looking to Germany perhaps (rather than the USA) as the inspiration.
16 November 2010
22:2080367Howard,
basically UK plc has got itself in a position where we have spent the past couple of decades treating ourselves to loads of new 'stuff' rather than improving 'services', leaving us in a state whereupon we are apparently mortified that the 'poor' are occasionally cold, can't afford a holiday, can't afford a car etc etc and the other necessities of life whilst hardly surprised that (especially) the old are queuing for operations that you and I have charitably sponsored to be done abroad in their millions.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
16 November 2010
23:0580374From where did you source your information Barry?
According to the W.H.O the UK ranks as number 18 in the world, Germany 25th and the USA 37th. France ranks as the the top healthcare provider.
The USA is criticised as having the worlds most expensive healthcare and is of questionable quality.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
16 November 2010
23:5280382i must admit i was surprised by barry's assertion about us having the worst health provision in the developed world.
maybe it is more about political dogma than practicality, we all know that the united states has been third world in that area, and only now are they trying to catch up.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 November 2010
07:3080389Clearly Howard and Dave you did not watch Britains Trillion Pound Horror Story as I recommended.
Here is the link again - it is a must watch, educational, well presented and entertaining as well. Over simplifies a bit but gets the truth accross....
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/britains-trillion-pound-horror-storyGuest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
17 November 2010
08:1580401Thanks Barry - I tried that a couple of times but it didn't work; connection timed out or similar.
No one seems to believe that money has been poured down the proverbial drain for far too long and those responsible, are in denial (or some other river - without a paddle).
Roger
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 November 2010
08:1780403Is it your computer settings Roger?
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
17 November 2010
08:3180406Works on all the other links put on here Barry; maybe I'll try going on to Channel4.com and looking from there.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
17 November 2010
08:5680409not sure how politics got dragged into this one, the issue was about an overspend by the health authority.
east kent coastal are one of many.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 November 2010
09:0080411We are talking about the economy and how to improve the health service - not politics, did anyone mention politics, not me.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
17 November 2010
09:1080413Doctors are leaving the NHS because they are finding it increasingly difficult to work in a system where 'managers' outnumber medical staff. The whole is made worse by being driven by targets rather than care, statistics becoming more important than treatment. There is such an obsession with numbers and time spent in hospital that patients are increasingly being sent home far too early. A regular occurrence is now having patients taken in by ambulance then discharged in the middle of the night having been diagnosed with what isn't wrong with them. Rather than being in the wards nursing staff are now out of the way at 'nursing stations' waiting for 'managers' instructions.
My own mother is currently in hospital having had her left leg removed. Last week, while she was the only patient in her bay fighting to get the attention of staff also caring for another woman occupying another bay (also on her own), when we were handed a letter stating that she required a care home. The letter went on to state that we had seven days to find her a place or they would allocate her one somewhere in the country. At that point her stump was (and still is) infected plus other health problems and yet the social care manager has decreed that she requires residential care rather than nursing care. As, given the health issues, my brothers and I had been looking for a place in a nursing home this has meant starting again with a seven day deadline.
A Conservative government began the target system and introduced business managers, a Labour government perpetuated it and introduced payments to GP's for not sending patients (they prefer the PC nonsense of 'clients') to consultants and the ridiculous system whereby a doctor can earn more by suggesting smokers quit (with no need to follow through) than they do for being on-call.
Both shades of government have declared a need to cut back on the cost but both have done so by spending more on management than on medicine. PCT's, supposedly there to help monitor and allocate funding now spend more on publicity than they do on medical matters. Our own local PCT is, among other things, a sponsor of the big telly in Market Square.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
17 November 2010
09:4080418Chris, I am sorry you are experiencing these things. It is outrageous. The attitude and practice you describe has been in place for years and is one of the reasons I am so glad I left health service and social services work when I did. No room for kindness, sanity or even humanity in many cases - it has long been a case of moving "bed blockers" to another orgaisations budget. That is one of the reasons there will be a fight between health and social services to define your Mothers needs: neither will want to pay and if she has nursing needs the NHS will have to contribute.
It is outrageous that you and she have been forced into this untenable situation - making what may be a lifelong decision in a week, based on conflicting and probably inaccurate assessments which themselves will be influenced by which organisation has made the better case for not funding. You have my sympathy and I wish you luck - get in touch if you want some support.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
17 November 2010
14:4180482Barry in your post you say,"the worse health provider of any developed country". That clearly is inaccurate and you should concede that your statement was wrong.
Regarding Germany (7 places below the UK) maybe you should enquire of the average German what they think of their health care. They will no doubt tell you that it is far too expensive.
Incidentally I did see the programme to which you refer.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 November 2010
15:0280486Dave - in Germany there are no waiting lists, you get diagnosed earlier, treated earlier, you are not denied the latest treatments or drugs, they have more MRI scanners, more beds..... I could go on.
The Germans (or French) would not swap our system for theirs. Even Obama rejected the NHS model for his reforms.
As the programme pointed out there are plenty of Brits looking at health tourism to get treatments elsewhere because the NHS is so bad. The only people coming the other way are from the developing world....
Our system must be changed to a private insurance led system.
Did you not learn anything from the programme?
Did you not recognise many of the same themes and conclusions that I have followed in the past? I am not talking just NHS here.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
17 November 2010
15:2180488Barry you still evade the issue, the facts are that Germany is rated the 25th in the World, whereas the UK is rated 18th. If as you say is correct then why isn't Germany higher up the ratings?
I am purely talking NHS here and am not being sidetracked by other issues in an attempt to lay a smokescreen over the facts.
Now Barry a simple yes or no do you still consider your statement to be correct?
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
17 November 2010
15:2380489If the German system is so brilliant how come they are 7 places below the UK?
I would hate the system to change to a "private insurance led system" where the insured get excellant treatment and the rest get the basic minimum if lucky.
I would also add I have never had cause to complain about the NHS treatment I have received in the past.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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