7 September 2010
20:0869226Howard pack of wolfs again if your face fits and sadly it is true i did stand three years ago as was thinking of doing so again but i sadly cant be bothered to waste my time im not power nor needing to be something to boast about unlike some i could name . John you are a fab guy who was gained the respect you so rightly deserve
Guest 687- Registered: 2 Jun 2009
- Posts: 513
7 September 2010
20:1169229I support the tories because their policies are the only ones that are thought out and practical,they are to put it quite plainly, better managers. They are more than capable of not only running the country but also the Town and District capably, a task Labour has failed at miserably.
Cannot continue the debate for a few days as I am now off to Stockholm but I am sure Keith will continue posting in his own inimitable but unlikely to be envied way.
7 September 2010
20:1269230Ken come back and be my milkman please
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
7 September 2010
20:2569231ken
you are clearly a clever politico and a thoroughly agreeable sort of cove, you have stated that you had a conversion on the road to damascus, once you were a red now you are a dyed in the wool blue.
it has been alleged on this forum a number of times that after you first defected you tried to re-apply for member ship of the evil socialists.
you have studiously avoided responding to that.
melissa
quite right my pint of semi skimmed has never been the same since multi-coloured ken changed jobs.
7 September 2010
20:2869232Ken, have a good trip and look out for the Stockholm building which proudly displays the best web address in the world, in my view. It is:
www.notar.se
No selection process for the Indies as recall. Not being a party they don't need one.
Melissa, you must learn to grovel and distort the truth better if you want to gain entry to Tower Hamlets Castle. Let me help you. Recite some helpful phrases, after me, 1 - 2 - 3:
1. Don't let the truth get in the way of anything. (repeat 10 times or as many as necssary until you are convincd)
2. There are definitely undiscoverd WMD in Iraq. (put on cheesy grin and put your trust in Tony and GeorgeW)
3. Borrowing more than we can pay back is a good way to run an economy (hardliners still think this is a good maxim, so learn it well)
4. Holding on to power at any level is better than giving someone else a chance to do it better (useful at all levels of left wing politics, but particularly locally)
5. I must bow down to the greater presence of the all controlling GC (this is particularly useful to get that all important nod of approval)
Finally, you will need to visit a top London hospital to have your brain cells removed to avoid the possibility that you may think for yourself.
Good luck and hope to see you on the hustings sometime soon.
7 September 2010
20:3869239Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
7 September 2010
21:2769255Sid.
1.A always tell the truth.
2Was and always was against any War,but suppotr our service personnel.
3Wait until you see what cutting the economy does in time to give everyone a bonus before the next election!
4.I will stand aside if any body can do better than me in my ward,not just promises at election time but working in my ward for 4 years,again many things you don't see or hear about.
5.GC have never told me anything,they DO NOT tell me how to vote or select anyone.
Finally I never had any brain cells in the first place so I can't have them removed my brain has a life of its own.
See you fighting Tower Hamlets then.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 687- Registered: 2 Jun 2009
- Posts: 513
12 September 2010
13:3070098Sid it wasn't until I had visited the web adress that I realised it was your wonderful laconic humour at play.
Howard I have responded to Keith's allegations many times so I don't feel the need, unlike Keith to keep repeating myself. What does puzzle me is the fact the local Labour Party treated me as a paria whilst one of their members and now castigate me now I am not.
Having been a 'red' and now a 'blue' I suppose the 'multicoloured' must have been my 'purple' patch whilst I was in my stage of metemorphosis.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
12 September 2010
14:1770100KEN;
No allegation, all fact mate.
But it's fine.
You cant Ken continue to hold the view that whilst part of thE labour group of cllrs that you opposed much that was put forward.
You even chaired the group at one point, if you were that strong against the party why put up for these positions.
It Is correct cllrs/members started to disagree with you and why not.
Iv had many debates within the party even disagreements
but within the 4 walls it should stay.
Ken, Im civil with you, even though disagree with lots you say, and how you operate, and thats fine, I'm not here to agree with everyone, or how boring it would get.
My outstanding question to you which I'm still unsure on, is that you tell me every time I see bump into you, your realy a true SOCIALIST now i know the labour paty has moved a long way from its roots.
And if anyone is a true socialist, to cross the floor to tory is a hugh big move
and I believe just running with the ones in control at the time, and thats fine to
But when labour gets back in govt/council again in 18 months, don't forget you will be unable to re join. no, i suppose you can again re apply.
Labour is stronger without you,
That's not to say I won't still buy you that bacon roll(suppose its my turn again lol)
SID;
PLease don't try to kid me over the indies.
As Iv said on another posting friends of mine were canvassed to become indies
so there is a form of selectiuon.
And the Indies ARE registered as a party, so you can't avoid that one either
nice try though.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
12 September 2010
14:3770104Keef
If one thinks that the party of your choice has moved away from its core principles and values the best way to obtain change is to work from within that party pushing for a return to true socialism. I agree with you it's no good switching from one party to another as this leaves the door open for others to continue to swing away from its roots and prevents one from making any change and bringing the party back on line and on track.
The easy option is for one to say "the party no longer representated my best interests" then leave and search for an alternative party. I could never cross that line.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
12 September 2010
15:1170106MAREK;
i'V NEVER denied being a lefty socialist, and certainly that remains, and its true to say that over the years just like you say I worked from within the party.
I also share your view that if you say your a true socialist, you wouldnt even think of changing parties.
Im no longer a party member. although I share labours ideas.
Theres much i would like to change.And like you say working from within is the way.
Certainly if your belief is socialist/labour you wouldnt go out of your way to try to discredit the sitting MP at the time/labour group, labour party.
Like you MAREK if I became so un nerved by the party I would just get out of politics and do me own thing.
Im looking forward to the labour party being back in govt in 18 months time and was strange that cameron announced who he fears most in the labour leadership election.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
12 September 2010
17:2670132Naive Keith, but then all closed mind socialists ar ethe same I suppose.
Trying to change a party from within will almost necessarily mean going against the sitting candidate, particularly one who has been sitting on their hands for 13 years or so. Nothing wrong in that. It is good adult behaviour to analyse. criticise (if necessary) and take action. Better that than become a "Yes" man, but then that is all the Labour party wants, "Yes" men.
Ken claiming to be a true socialist is not a problem either as far as I can see. It's just that his view of what true socialism is, is different to that of others. Again, better to hold your own opinion strongly than be a "yes" man.
Perhaps Ken saw the Tories (who weren't in power when Ken switched by the way", as representing more closely the views of socialism he held. To change party's is not an issue if your beliefs remain the same. Your party welcomes any old dross when it decides to switch to the red camp, so it is highly hypocritical to have a go on this score.
There is also nothing wrong in being a militant socialist from the Leninist, Trotskyist wing of the Labour Party if that is where one feels a comfortable fit for one's political beliefs. I happen to think trying to bastardise a revolutions aftermath policies (basic extermination of a class structure and subjugation of the masses) to fit a country where those practices will never be successful is foolhardy in the extreme, and those who would prefer us to be that way would be better off moving to socialist Russia. But of course they will never do that because even they can see how the socialist dream had failed bigtime there. I wouldn't be surprised if more socialist pepole have been exterminated in that place than the Germans killed Jews etc. It would be interesting to see the genuine stats.
Still, as you say Keith, and I agree, everyone is entitled to their own view.
Guest 687- Registered: 2 Jun 2009
- Posts: 513
13 September 2010
15:0370280Keith I am quite surprised to find you are no longer a fully paid up member of the Labour Party, a classic lighthearted example of not puuttting your money where your mouth is.
Your concern of your perceived memories of what I may or maynot have done in the past is quite irrellevent, what you should be concerned about is what I intend doing and saying in the future.
In defence of the 'Indies' I must reiterate what others have said, they were never set up as a political party but as a counterbalance to the unelected Labour dominated (18 seats 18 Labour councillors)Dover Town Council who were about to spend £10,000 on a suspended clock at the Tower Hamlets crossroads. In retrospect a waste of £10,000 but supported by me at the time. The first ,Indie, elected was Peter Drew who assured me he was a Labour voter but felt that our actions should have accountability which they did not, an arguement I believe you would endorse.
At this juncture I think I should admit to agreeing in retrospect with you that Town Councils are a layer of government hard to justify but whilst they exist they should be accountable and the best way to do this is to have councillors from all political spectrums whether they are affiliated to a political party or not.
13 September 2010
15:1370281howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 September 2010
15:2270285i remember when peter drew was "elected", his was the only name on the ballot paper.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
13 September 2010
18:2770347Wasn't Peter co-opted, so no vote took place ?
Roger
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
13 September 2010
22:1970417Ken
from the beginning then, you don't deny what I have posted, and thats fine
posters can draw there own views on that.
My dosh ken went into the labour party for over 25 years quite enough i say, I have more pressing needs at the moment, and cecided to have a break from politics, probably never to return.
On here is my view point, I will always vote labour, and be a labour supporter
I have NO CONCERNS what so ever on what you may wish to say on the town council or general election front, you appear to have an opinion that people fear what u might say, certainly I dont, and im sure no other labour person does.
It's no surprize you support the tory/indies, and there was no problem them being set up as a party.
labour were only in control because no other party put up
and Iwelcome othe parties like the indies standing and always have.
Thats not to say I want to see any elected, but it's democracy.
Chris please confirm the indies ARE REGISTERED as a political party.
With regard to any decision the Town council may have made I'm not party to all this info so would be wrong to comment to much on it, only to say if it was correct on the clock I wouldn't support it.
Ken please don't get me wrong, I think there are to many councils/cllrs
but the town council is vital to stay.
I believe decisions should be made ast the lowest level possible.
What the town council needs to do in my opinion is to make itself fit to make these decisions.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
13 September 2010
22:3670425I agree with some of what you say there Keith about democracy etc. Part of a democratic society is the freedom to air our views and change our minds without let or hindrance. Whatever our opinion of those who change sides, and politicos of all colours do frequently, it is their right to do so, and I support that principle. I suspect you do too, but it's just not for you. We should not castigate those who feel their beliefs or principles have been betrayed or those who stick around even though the party is no longer recognisable as the one originally chosen for support.
Traditional Labour folks were horrified at the new direction Blair set them on, as were Tories when Maggie took the reins, and again when suffering a series of 'wet' leaders. It's just the way it goes sometimes.
With regard to the clock incident. Ken is right, the unchallenged Labour group at DTC were proposing to spend £10,000 of our money to have a clock erected, at the London Road/Tower Hamlets junction. It was this totally injudicious and unjustifiable waste of public money that spurred a number to put up for the Indies at that time.
Howard, with regard Peter Drew's election, it is not a candidates fault if no-one stands against them at an election, and, as I recall, there had to be an election for that DTC seat at the time as it had officially been called for by the Labour group.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
13 September 2010
22:4570430SID
Now come on
you cant have it both ways.
you say labour was unelected although i do believe some did go through an elrection where other candidates stood.
And then you say it's ok to have an indy co opted WITHOUT AN ELECTION the very reason in your words the indy party was formed to stop labour the same.
Forme I don't support indies, but welcome candidates from lots of parties or non political on the town council.
But you have to be consistant with your view Sid. please
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
13 September 2010
22:4870432Erm, can I ask you to re-read the posting Keith please?
I didn't use the word 'unelected', I actually said 'unchallenged'. Totally different meaning and the right word as there were only Labour councillors on DTC at the time, for whatever reason.
As far as I am aware, Peter wasn't co-opted; why would would the Labour group do that if he were crossing the floor so to speak?