Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Barry
let's not forget that Thatcher closed or sold off most of our manufacturing base which in turn led to the reliance on financial services. This is a precarious state of affairs as we have no longer have the means of driving our way out of trouble. We are reliant on a system that can depart at a whim and has threatened to do so if regulation is imposed. It doesn't bode well for a government that wishes to apply regulation nor for economic security.
As for the public/private sector argument I don't subscribe to the 'one is better than the other' debate. How many private sector businesses have contracts with public sector and how many private sector jobs are created by the public sector? We are all part of a complex inter-relationship and each dependent on the other.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Barry, I think a 7.7 million pound bonus is a trifle too high.
What does one do with so much money?
My view is that bankers should receive no more than £100 a month.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Mark - the statistics do not bear that out.
During the 80's there was actually growth in private sector manufacturing while during the 'noughties' that fell. During the last lLabour government the big growth sector was the public sector and that has led to a lot of our current problems. Growth in financial services in the late 80's/90's was based on UK retails financial services which did bring up its own problems, as I know only too well, but it was the banking sector boom of the Brown days that laid the foundation of the banks problems
The simple fact is that the previous Labour and indeed Conservative governments of the 60's and 70's set about keeping certain industries alive only through massive and unsustainable subsidy and it simply had to end. Mrs T cut their umbilicle cord and these industries had to modernise to survive but some had gone too far to do so. The real fault was not allowing the market to do its job in the previous decades. The Unions played a massive part in thie demise, no business could survive their activities, strikes and restrictive practices that prevented moderisation ensuring theu could not compete. Nevertheless, as I said earlier, there was actually growth in manufacturing during the 80's a fact that I admit did surprise me when I found out a few months ago.
Alex - we have covered that. It is all about the global market for a job of that size, complexity and responsibility.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I don't consider myself a leftie or a socialist, although I do have a social conscience.
I simply do not belive that a £7.7 million bonus is appropriate and right; I'll go so far as to say obscene in this day and age. To me it is sticking two fingers up to everyone else.
I worked for an Bank in London - NatWest (now part of RBS as we all know) for over 24 years and I would be very angry if my Boss took this much money out of the company I worked for.
Roger
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Barry
that there was growth surprises me too! How is this measured? There is nothing on the scale of the 70s and 80s left so are we talking about more numerous, but smaller, manufacturing on the lines of the sweat shops? I saw a statistic once, but can't quite recall it, which showed that something like 90% of businesses in Kent employ only a handful of people. That may account for 'growth'.
Thatcher had an ideological hatred of the public sector and what she regarded as the dirty industries which is why she embarked on a massive sell-off and outsourcing drive. The result was the shift to high-tech (low employing) businesses and finance. Germany which is the strong nation in Europe (and let's not forget that it took on an (effectively) third world nation in Eastern Germany only 30 years ago) has a more balanced trade sector with both finance and heavy industries. Their model looks more sustainable to me and, though still prone to global market activities, is better able to ride downturn.
We need to broaden our base and be prepared to face down the threats of the financial services that they will up sticks. The financial crisis has shown us that we are too dependent on a a small sector and rather than being held hostage (and I agree with Roger) being shown two fingers we need to build for the future.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Roger
Be careful or BarryW may think you are a lefy wing socialist whinger in disguise who has an inbred hatred of class and bankers or may even think that you subscribe to the Morning Star and totally disregard that "..This is the real world of commerce and no place for socialist envy and spite...." to quote the boy verbatum.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Roger - it is NOT a £7.7m bonus.
£1.2m of it was his pay, £2m was bonuses and the remainder relates to share deals.
That compares to the Chief Exec of Barclays getting a package of £9m in the same year, his bonus alone being £6.5m. If anything the RBS boss was paid a bit under the market rate for the job. Barclays incidentally did not get a taxpayer bail-out and we have no right to tell them what to pay their execs but RBS have to operate in that market.
Mark.
The growth did come from small businesses to a very large extent and that is always the case. All businesses start small. It is wrong and inappropriate to label small employers as running sweetshops, that is not true. It is also true that her policies of establishing enterprise zones helped attract foreign investors as well, like Toyota and Honda building the kind of high tech car manufacturing plant that the British car industry should have invested in, but was prevented doing so by Union restictive practices. The result of that lack of investment is clear for all to see.
There are a few, very few rogues and criminals who do run sweetshops and there always have been and they are usually below the radar with immigrant labour. I certainly would not defend them and should be prosecuted when found.
It is true that most employment is in smaller companies. They make a massive contribution to our economy and we need them and more of them.
Again you are totally misjudging Mrs T, speaking perhaps from the left wing characterisation that bears no relationship to reality. The government does not influence what businesses succeed or shift abroad directly, the market does. If we want to keep and encourage more businesses to open here and stay here then the most a government can do is to create the competitive climate that aids that. This means lower taxation, less red tape and beaurocracy, less government interference, making it easier to both hire and fire. Mrs T went in that direct hence the growth in manufacturing but then Brown and Labour went and did the opposite with the resulting economic problems we have today.
I agree with you and I know Osborne and Cameron agree that we need a broader economic base. I have said how that can be achieved but ultimately that will depend on entrepeurial men and women going out there taking risks, setting up companies and succeeding.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
george who.bonus what bonus.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ROGER
It's nice when you see the real world, and stand out against your buddy baz.
at the end of the day no matter how much baz tries to dress it all up, it's obscene
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Thanks Keith, but it's not a matter of standing out against BarryW , we have a different view of the size of bonus these Bankers get - however it's dressed up.
I respect very much Barry's financial knowledge and judgement; he has much greater depth of knowledge about it than anyone I know and is very good at his job - I certainly trust him with my money.
He's a fellow Conservative so he can't be all bad !! I just disagree with these guys getting such large amounts of money for doing their job (properly).
Roger
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ROGER
I WON';T comment on baz's financial abilities as have no idea, but it's good when you see the real world.
yes you are both tories hes just a little more right wing lol
and i know he won't mind me saying so lol
i'v said there are many issues that even myself and batrryw agree on and iv highlighted just a few from time to time
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
This is a cracking story from todays Mirror
George Osborne has blamed the ROYAL WEDDING for the ailing economy.
The Chancellor's astonishing excuse comes as he braces himself for another set of gloomy results when growth figures are published later today.
When the last "shockingly bad" figures were revealed in January, Mr Osborne's pathetic excuse was the snow.
Now he has thought up a new reason amid fears growth will plunge below predictions of 0.4 per cent for the past three months.
Mr Osborne's allies insist productivity suffered because of the four-day weekend to celebrate the wedding of Prince William and Kate Middleton - even though it was the Government's idea.
The extra day off on April 29 meant millions enjoyed two long Bank Holiday weekends in a row. A senior Tory minister revealed to the Sunday Mirror: "We are not expecting good figures. A certain wedding is to blame for that."
In January the PM boasted how it would boost the economy.
Don't you just love the Tories and who said they don't have a sense of humour
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The Daily Mirror - you really should get a proper newspaper Marek instead of that rag, there is no bigger comic on the news-stands.
The many bank holidays in Q2 does impact on production and growth, that cannot be denied and we had a lot more time off and some very close together would have compounded the normal problem.
That said the main problem is debt and uncertainty in our overseas markets and taken together it has been predicted for a significant impact. Hoe much we will have to see.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
I read most of the newspapers for a rounded rather than a blinkered view on items making the news.
The quotes from the Mirror, comic or otherwise ,are attributed to Boy George.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well said marek again
don't give up only one person wont agree with you, but thats to be expected
the rest of us understand
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I doubt that you understand Keith!
I get my financial information (not news) from a range of specialist financial media. I need to. That way I see what is actually happening and not what is being portrayed and misrepresented out of context by cheap rags like the Mirror.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
usual binkered view marek friom barryw
no one else understands only him, totally blinkered view
many posters have a great deal of both financial expertese, and knowledge of many other issues affecting the country and the world at large.
But to barryw, no one else understands, only he knows !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Not at all Keith - most people get their financial news from tabloids entirely. I don't and must not do so because I have to know what is happening professionally. That is why I end up challenging a lot of what is said on this forum about economics. Perhaps you should try reading more what I actually say Keith.
Ross is a member who also has a considerable economic knowledge, though we come at it from different political perspectives, I enjoy our discussions.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
I won't waste my time replying then barryw as only you know.
clearly both MAREK and I and anyone else that may disagree don't understand(your words)
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
george osbourne needs to come up wiyh a well thought out plan b,as soon as possable.