Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
1 February 2010
18:3739345#1
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
1 February 2010
18:4739346#2
Yes Scotchie and the panoramic picture on page 5 too is also very good. The one showing above the Chief Executive's message.That new layout looks exciting and it could actrually work very well indeed. It may not be a crazy idea after all. There is though a loss of beach which may be a downside for some.
1 February 2010
18:5739347#3
So it looks like a race between them and ASDA?????
Seriously though, I have been following this as a Marina Berth Holder Representative for some time and the plans are brilliant as shown.
I can see the lock and cut from the Wellington to the Marina, and the Marina itself and its surroundings, developing into a smaller version of Brighton Marina or St Katherine's London with all sorts of retail attractions. This would certainly draw the punters into Dover (unlike than the chance to save a couple of pence on ASDA baked beans).
At that point here should be enough momentum post recession to develop the DTIZ into upmarket flats, especially if we can retain the fast rail-link to London.
It makes so much sense that I suspect it will only be a matter of hours before some prat from Fort Whitfield starts opposing it!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
1 February 2010
19:1539349#4
this all depends on whether they get private funding, even though they said in the past that they did not need it.
a good presentation though.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
2 February 2010
13:0939417#5
Rather surprised at the lack of responses on this
If it happens it will be one of the most major developments that the town has ever seen !!
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 684- Registered: 26 Feb 2009
- Posts: 635
2 February 2010
13:3639419#6
I agree, Scotchie. Thought there'd be a lot more responses. Perhaps because it doesn't centre on playground politics, no-one's interested.
By the way, I can't see Southern House (Lord Warden House, whatever it's called these days) on the plans. They're surely not planning on demolishing it, are they? It's grade 1 listed, you know. It should be restored as a five-star hotel as a centrepiece of the development, with a high-speed train line going back into Dover Marine and linking up with the cruise terminal. Not difficult.
Sorry for the joined-up thinking. I'll go now...
Cheers all,
Andy
PS: On the subject of joined-up thinking see the following
http://www.trains4deal.com - I want the whole district to reap the benefits of the HST (well, maybe not Whitfield).
PPS: Have just spotted Southern House on the plans. I can also understand the deep cynicism among many Dovorians about another glossy brochure being prettily Powerpointed for plebian delectation. Let them eat Tarmac.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
2 February 2010
13:5339421#7
Good posting Andy. 14.00. Depart London St Pancras by high speed train, (or from London Victoria by the VSOE, steam hauled maybe?), arrive newly re-opened Dover Marine station at 14.40, short walk through the new subway to the newly refurbished grade one listed Southern House for dinner and overnight stay so you`re completely refreshed for joining your cruise ship for it`s morning sailing. Bon voyage, and please come back again.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 February 2010
14:2039426#8
the reason that there are so little replies is that there have been many plans, artistic impressions and presentations over the years connected to the town or the seafront.
cynicism has set in.
wetherspoons submit stunning plans for "snoops" every so often, just to give the impression that they have intentions of renovating it.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
2 February 2010
15:2439433#9
Yes, a very pretty presentation. Do we think that a newly privatised Port of Dover would fork out for all this?
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 684- Registered: 26 Feb 2009
- Posts: 635
2 February 2010
16:0839435#10
Still, roll on 2035, fellow Dovorians!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 February 2010
18:1239453#11
i shall take my flask and sandwiches together with sleeping bag down to the seafront straight away.
i don't want to be late for the grand opening.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
2 February 2010
19:5439469#12
The latest version of the plans are interesting and in part an improvement on previous ones, in so far as port access has been changed from a flyover that threatened the entrance to the Grand Shaft Staircase to a more conventional grade level layout. The downsides of the current proposals are that the space for a rail head has been given over to an extension of the parking for freight clearance and the plans appear to go right up to the existing boundary line with the railway thus precluding any possibility of flattening out the tight curve by the old harbour station and thus shaving a few minutes off the train times.
Any future purchaser of the port will recognise the need to do something with the Western Docks in order to match and accommodate the proposed expansion of the Calais docks and the new generation of "super" ferries; so I would fully expect this to go ahead in one form or another.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
3 February 2010
05:2939498#13
The berths in the Eastern Docks and Calais are being extended for the two new P&O superferries. One is due at the end of this year and one at the end of next. At 49,000 tons they are a bit larger than the present 35,000 ton Maersk ferries. The main difference is the length, 212 metres as against 186 metres, but the berths can already accommodate the long and thin SeaFrance Moliere at 203 metres. The new ships will be here many years before any contemplated berths are completed in the Western Docks.
There is no urgency for Terminal 2 as the original projections for predicted traffic through the port have been rendered irrelevant by the recession and it will be many years before the Eastern Docks capacity is exceeded, if ever. There are other ways for freight to travel between the UK and the Continent and Dover may well be bypassed, things can change quickly in the shipping world.
We have discussed the Terminal 2 proposals at length on the previous occasions that glossy brochures were produced. The main difference now is that Bob Goldfield always said categorically that the port would finance the expansion but now proposes to flog it off abroad.
My favourite flight of fancy in the previous expositions was the millionaires paradise postulated for the Wellington Dock. The only fault I can find with the view of same shown below is that it would obscure the glittering developments eagerly anticipated in the DTIZ.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
4 February 2010
08:2239588#14
As mentioned on another thread, I attended the DHB Port Consultative Committee meeting at the ARK yesterday morning and as you would except the debate about restructuring/privatisation came up.
I know a lot of people are against the Harbour Board whatever they do, but they were emphasising very strongly that the main reason is that they will be able to raise the money for development, easier being a private port, than a Trust Port.
There are also community projects they could do, that they can't do now.
Support and protection for the staff is paramount, as is their pensions.
They want top establish a Community Charitable Trust and a Share Ownership Scheme and by doing this transition voluntarily, they can control the hand-over and will be able to make the decisions much better, than if it was forced on them.
By being able to control the transition, they will be able to satisfy (most) local concerns.
Charlie Elphicke was there too and as he has said before, he is against the sell-off but appreciates that he alone couldn't stop it, but was stressing very highly the need to protect staff, their jobs, working conditions and pensions as well as the security of the Port itself.
All accepted by the DHB Board.
There were of course other things on the agenda - traffic numbers and forecasts and that numbers are already starting to go up again, minor dock development works etc.
Maybe I'm gullible, but I came away with a feeling that this was good news for Dover and good news for the people who work there. I know the unions will always be against change what it is, but I do (now) believe we can achieve the development and improvements Dover needs.
I also appreciate that you can't please all the people all the time.
Roger
Guest 684- Registered: 26 Feb 2009
- Posts: 635
4 February 2010
17:3339634#15
You're not being gullible, Roger - your instincts are right. Dover needs to move forward - and fast.
If privatisation of the port will catalyse this, sparking the necessary outside investment for the T2 redevelopment (and finally see a knock-on effect of the wasteland north of DHB Townwall Freeway get a long overdue mercy-killing from the wrecking balls), then so be it.
Let's face it, there's bugger all else happening. If the DHB bigwigs (read Roger Mountford in today's Dover Distress) are true to their word about pensions, jobs, reinvestment in the community, then go for it. Fast.
Forza Dubris!
Andy
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
4 February 2010
19:1639647#16
I agree totally, we aren't in the Dark Ages any more and if it needs commercial backing to keep Dover as the Key to England then it should go for it.
It could be so easy for Folkestone or Ramsgate to overtake Dover, with modern ships the crossing won't be that different in time.....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
4 February 2010
21:0739662#17
Andy Stevens' post is right, Forza Dubris as he says.
The trouble is cynicism with regard to DHB plans - barely a year goes by without some new cobblers emanating from Harbour House, it seems as though they thrive on producing artists impressions amd I for one am really sceptical that this will ever come to pass.
As for Roger's attendance at the Port Consultative meeting: ".....There are also community projects they could do, that they can't do now." Sorry, Roger, I don't believe a word of it; it's common knowledge that DHB has done bugger all for the town, and now when the issue of the Port being privatised surfaces, claptrap statements like this appear. Community projects such as...........?
True friends stab you in the front.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 February 2010
21:2839664#18
paul
there is no way that folkestone or ramsgate could handle todays ferries, let alone the next generation.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
4 February 2010
21:5239667#19
I agree with you, Howard, about Folkestone at least; Ramsgate on the other hand has seen increased business through the new port over the last few years and is keen to grow further
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
4 February 2010
22:0739668#20
Probably not saying those towns exactly, but Dover isn't the only place to have a coastline.....
Dover has changed rather a lot since the Charter when it was about the size of Wellington and Granville Docks !
Been nice knowing you :)
