Baroness Thatcher
- Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
8 April 2013 14:43224425barry futher more a state funaral for an ex pm what ever next,you,me or any person on this forum wouldnt get such likes.a total waste of money,time and resorces. - 8 April 2013 14:43224426Just seen on Reuters this:
""The British government said Thatcher would have a ceremonial funeral with military honours at London's St Paul's Cathedral, which falls short of a full state funeral, in accordance with the wishes of her family.""
Her families wishes of course should be paramount but a state funeral would have been appropriate. - 8 April 2013 14:54224429Brian Dixon wrote:barry futher more a state funaral for an ex pm what ever next,you,me or any person on this forum wouldnt get such likes.a total waste of money,time and resorces.
Correct, former PM's never receive state funerals.
Except Churchill of course.
And Gladstone. And Palmerstone. And Wellington. - 8 April 2013 15:11224432She won't be mist or forgiven by hundreds of thousands of people that lost there jobs and homes So the conservatives could peg the pound to the German mark in the ERM.Remember the £8 billion Norman Lemont
When actually what the UK needed in them times was to devalue for growth,
The same mistake is happening with the euro in the southern countries today
Thatcher should not be held up as the saver of the UK it's just not true
She was strong and we need this today and later admitted her EU mistakes,
But it' was UK citizens that have paid the price not Thatcher
The conservatives are still in the long grass to day because of the Thatcher arrogance voters have long memories
Cameron understands the damage of the nasty party ,I will give him this - 8 April 2013 15:28224434You do make a good point about the ERM Keith. But there are some significant points that you may have forgotten...
1/ She fought a long battle against Lawson and others over ERM membership. She, as advised by Alan Waters, was against it and predicted a disaster. The problem was that up against her were the whole British establishment including most of the media, the Unions, all the political parties including Labour, the CBI etc etc. Even she had to cave in when Major was Chancellor it was a very public battle at the time. To blame her for the ERM disaster is unfair.
2/ We learned from that mistake and that is a major reason we are not lumbered with the Euro, a tough lesson but one needed to be learnt even if the Eurofanatics have not done so.
Maastrict was the other big mistake of course but that was under Major not her. - 8 April 2013 16:19224440When I wrote to her in 1987 about the disappearance of the British Merchant fleet, I didn't get an 'aparatchick's' typed letter or a pass off to a 'more appropriate' Ministry, I received a hand written letter signed by her which answered each of the points that I raised. I didn't agree with the policy that was explained and it didn't change my mind about the short sightedness that I felt was destroying our country's future expertise in the maritime sector, but I was impressed that I got such a comprehensive hand written reply and, as a result, have never been put-off approaching politicians directly at whatever level they sit in the hierarchy of whatever country.
My experience was that she cared and she did what she thought was right regardless of whether it would be universally popular (which it often wasn't). These things are worthy of respect, whether one agreed with her or not. - Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
8 April 2013 16:36224442She always struck me as a bit of a tyrant but I have read enough to think she also could be sensitive and motherly when needed.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
------------------------------------------------------------------- - 8 April 2013 16:58224443For Me, Her worst legacy was to encourage the myth of global warming. It was She who started the whole ball rolling which has left us with the mess We face now.
Having said that She did carry out much needed changes which needed to carried out.
Imagine if Neil Kinnock had been elected as PM instead of Thatcher - Disaster. - 8 April 2013 20:10224455Glad to see some belated respect for Germany's economic performance. Germany has steered more of a middle ground than we have in the UK, not buying into the widespread 80s view that industry could safely be allowed to go to the wall in a modern economy and has a fundamentally stronger economy with a larger industrial sector. While industrial decline has happened, it has been slower, and better and more humanely managed. There was Real Alternative.
Can you imagine if they had had the windfall of North Sea Oil, instead of us, and the relative positions as financial centres of London and Frankfurt ha been reversed? It does not bear thinking about.
The western world is now feeling the effect of our folly in allowing so much of our industrial base to go to the wall while indulging in a sugar rush of credit to soften the blow.
Back to Mrs Thatcher, whatever your views, she probably shaped our current society, economy and politics more than any individual in the last 50 years. Personally, I will neither weep nor rejoice.
Edit: PhilipP, what are you credentials for dissing the science of global warming, and what is your reasoning? - 8 April 2013 21:47224465Andrew, I suggest you ask that question to all those who continue to propagate the myth before you ask for my credentials. I think you will find my credentials more or less the same as those very same people.
For more on Thatchers part in the scam read on here:
http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/richard-courtney-the-history-of-the-global-warming-scare/
This is one subject avoided by the media who you will find make no mention of this whatsoever when they spout prepared eulogies for her for the next interminable weeks. - 9 April 2013 05:50224472Certainly a long read Philip and if that tall-bloke is to be believed, quite shocking; Maggie was the last person I would have thought could have been taken in by this.
Roger - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
9 April 2013 07:07224477yes roger we all get duped at some point in our misrable lives. - 9 April 2013 08:29224489As said on the other Mrs T thread. I was always told if you having nothing good to say about a person say nothing at all, so
- 9 April 2013 08:34224490I have no desire to move this thread away from Baroness T but when I looked into Richard Courtney I found (http://www.sourcewatch.org that:
"Richard S. Courtney is a Technical Editor for CoalTrans International (journal of the international coal trading industry)..........In the early 1990s Courtney was a Senior Material Scientist of the National Coal Board (also known as British Coal) and a Science and Technology spokesman of the British Association of Colliery Management.]" Sounds like the sort of man who would take a stance against any global warming theory.
I also found: (http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/the-continuing-misadventures-of-richard-s-courtney-non-scientist/.
As with the Baroness, you pays your money and you takes your choice. - 9 April 2013 09:10224492Doesn't that make Him somewhat of an expert in the field?
If you still don't believe the facts of the matter check out what these guys say:
[URL][/URL]
As many have said before She did alot of good but also alot of bad. - 9 April 2013 09:31224496Philip,
wikispaces reports that criticisms of Nigel Calder include:
"It is suggested that Nigel Calder is taking a controversial position on Global Warming to sell books. Also, as he is a science writer rather than a scientist per ce (sic), it is suggested that his arguments do not have the credibility of scientific rigor."
Who is Brizoni and what is his background? Does he have an interest that we are unaware of?
We need balanced debate, which I will agree we are lacking, but I am not sure these people are presenting that. - 9 April 2013 19:13224600Perhaps Baroness Thatcher thought that it was a good pretext to close coal mines?
Philip, I think it is perfectly reasonable that I was wondering what your credentials were to make statements such as you do with such certainty when it flies in the face of the overwhelming majority of scientific opinion. Just because we have had a few cool summers and cold winters in the UK in recent years it does not mean global warning is not happening; and claiming, as some have, that it is all down to natural variability is false. natural variability and manmade factors can and so happen side by side. Incidentally, I am against further closures of coal fired power stations as I think we should be looking at clean coasl technology.
It is an irony that the recent cold weather locally may well be caused by global warming - the melting of the sea ice (shrunk by half since 1979) is disrupting the polar vortex and pushing cold arctic air southwards.
See for example: http://www.wunderground.com/news/global-warming-winters-20130328
The correlation between rising CO2 levels and rising global temperatures has been extremely well documented. As for natural variability, we are actual experiencing reduced solar output, yet the ice caps continue to melt.
How do you explain that melting, Philip? How do you explain the correlation between rising CO2 levers and rising gloabl temperatures? - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
9 April 2013 19:22224603yes she caused lots of unemployment in kent area,as well as nationaly,she not put miners out work but local merchant semen as well.i shant remind you of the p&o strike. - 9 April 2013 21:51224616Andrew, why do You insist on questioning the credentials of anyone expressing an opinion on this subject when, to My knowledge, ones' credentials are not examined on other topics of conversation be they religion, politics, matters of national or international interest - in fact any subject matter under the sun?
For some reason the global warming, sorry climate change, sorry climate weirding issue is singled out as a subject where one has to qualify ones' views with a CV of exams passed or papers written.
Well, as I explained before, the vast majority of material written on this subject is written by those who do not possess any semblance of expertise in the science of the climate but express an opinion from stuff they themselves have discovered. I am no different to that extent as, I suspect, are You.
So If I tell You that I have no formal qualifications in the subject would this really make a difference to your opinion?
If I told You I was, in fact, in possession of a first in one aspect of climate science or another and reached the conclusion that I agreed with the notion that AGW was a flawed theory, would that go some way to changing your mind on the subject? - I suspect not.
The correlation between CO2 and temperatures is well documented by those who happen to believe in that particular theory.
Others believe that there is a lag between the rise in temperatures and CO2 levels (simply put temperatures rise which increases CO2 levels in the atmosphere).
As for the ice cap melt there really is nothing to worry about. Long term oceanic oscillations affect our climate and the science is in it's infancy in coming to understand how these function.
Funny how global warming has morphed into climate change as the dire predictions which were so rife in the media failed to manifest themselves - rising seas levels, mass extinctions and most importantly global temperature which has remained the same for the past sixteen or so years when We were promised a steep rise.
Oh and really importantly this emerged today. To those who say the science is settled........
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/09/foia-obtained-met-office-document-shows-them-to-be-clueless-about-what-affects-our-climate-and-in-particular-what-caused-the-unusual-weather-last-year/ - 9 April 2013 22:59224626Fortunately there is another thread dedicated to Mrs. Thatcher, so let's continue this as a climatic thread:
Philip, there is more to it, combustibles can not only change the air through pollution, and pollute drinking water under the ground, and devastate large stretches of sea (oil spills), but even cause earthquakes, as is the case of fracking.Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
Rule Britannia!
Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ