Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Can't say I blame them Keith, you sound more like Alf Garnett every day.....
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Loved that programme
wouldnt be able to run these days
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
That's what I've been saying in the past:
if the Port of Dover were run by parliamentary politicians such as the MP, with the prospective MP candidate having an eye on the same position (I mean both the seat in Parliament and at the Port), they'd be making jibes at each other and at each other's parties.
It'd be one constant wrangling at a political level, ya-boo Labour this, boohoo tories that!
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
So, given that local politicians are exactly the same, presumably it should be left up to hard headed business people, Alex?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
Or people prepared to run it in the true spirit of a Trust Port, to administer improve and maintain it to allow the business world to prosper from running ferries importing and exporting etc etc and using local labour and suppliers.
Audere est facere.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Yes quite Martin. But with accountability to stakeholders. Trust ports under current law are accountable only to their own Boards. That's why Dr G has been able to operate Dover as if it were a private fiefdom.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
Surely the accountability can and should quite rightly be sorted.
Audere est facere.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Actually,what Martin says is the same as I proposed to the DfT, that the Port be run as a Trust Port, however there would be an appointed authority that ensures it is being administered according to the rules and regulations on fair competition.
I proposed that this authority be appointed either by Local Gov or by a combination of both Central and Local Gov.
Their duty would be to try to settle any disputes arising between the Board and one or more stakeholders, to ensure compliance with regulations on fair competition.
These people would more likely be officers, not politicians (councillors MPs etc.).
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Today the Department for Transport has informed me that the Decision Minister's letter on the Port of Dover has been amended in order to better represent my submission concerning port tolls, and has been updated on the Gov. UK website.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
(STOP LAUGHING KEITH)
Im so glad the govt is just listerning to you alexander and amended all its plans for you
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 697- Registered: 13 Apr 2010
- Posts: 622
#264 I think we've just slammed the door in the face of those hard headed business people who would have invested a lot of money in the port, and thereby, the wider local and national economy.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
For anyone who's been following the Department for Transport lately, it should be clear that the Government has opted for traffic tolls to finance new road-related facilities. It is part of their official statements as from 22 December 2012, clearly as a result of the rejection of the DHB privatisation bid.
Guest 697- Registered: 13 Apr 2010
- Posts: 622
I suspect any attempt to introduce tolls on cross-Channel traffic would be fiercely opposed by the industry, and costs would be passed on to the consumer. The revenue would no doubt go straight into central Government coffers with little or no benefit to Dover.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
KEVIN;
Horray some one is listerning
now can that be put to bed?
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Not at all, Kevin. The DfT have been outlining a new strategy to fund new transport facilities based on tolls.
It is all becoming clearer since a statement released by the DfT on 22nd December 2012, two days after the rejection of the DHB bid.
Clearly no one else on the Forum has been following up what is going on, so I'll post some information later tonight on it.
It would seem that basically the Government has accepted in principle my proposal on tolls to fund new road-related structures, and at least some of the money from tolls would go to private construction firms.
It's all a little too early to give a clearer outline, as the DfT is still assessing the project.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
From This Is Kent 8th January 2013:
"Earlier this month the Department of Transport said it was looking at tolling schemes to fund "new capacity" in limited circumstances."
"This autumn George Osborne announced that a feasibility study would be carried out by the DfT to explore how new road-building projects could be funded."
"Dover and Deal MP Charlie Elphicke said: "It's a case of wait and see. There is a much stronger case for lorry tolls to even up the playing field between foreign and British hauliers."
So the lorry toll proposal I've been making on freight does appear to be accepted now even by MP Charlie Elphicke, although I'm not sure if this reflects in DPPT's hitherto contrary stance to my port toll submission to the DfT.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i seem to remember kent county council proposing something similar where the revenue went directly to them.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
They did, Howard, after my first representation to the DfT in 2010.
I was in contact with KCC over this, and they outlined to me their position and how it would work, explaining they were working hard to get the Government to agree.
In fact, in my proposal, KCC would receive a share of a toll.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
If you let any arm of government have the money, central or local, it will disappear without trace.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
The lorry toll has already been consulted and agreed and will be charged on all HGVs using all UK roads. UK registered vehicles would then have a balancing reduction to their road tax. This toll will raise an overall net £23.5m which will all go to central Govt funds. The other road tolls being proposed are to raise funds on new road infrastructure to pay for that infrastructure and provide a profit to the private companies which have built it and a dividend to Govt. both regional and national.
Port road tolls have been tried before in other parts of the UK and, to date, all such schemes have been successfully challenged by freight associations and other road users and subsequently withdrawn.
DPPT have not taken a stance against road tolling, merely taken a position, on the basis of experience elsewhere in the UK and on the extant legal practicalities, that such a method is not currently a viable way of providing funding for port infrastructure development and more general regeneration activity in a port mutualisation project that needs to offer a perpetual solution to ownership and governance of the port today.
The DPPT model does not rely on potential, perhaps yes, perhaps no, changes to general or specific legislation to be viable. Had it done so it would rightfully have been laughed off stage as impractical and superficial. It is also highly unlikely that Government would have modified its policy towards Trust Ports for an alternative that required significant new legislation and modifications to existing laws in order for it to be viable.