Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Obviously it's such a secret project one can only assume that it's the site for the next MI5 building . I often wonder how many of the council have any formal qualifications in public administration,economics,politics,construction,town planning or in the case of the DTIZ site even signed the Official Secrets Act...it's laughable.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
I guess we'll find out soon enough
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
The more the councillors drop hints, the more I wonder if there is any plan at all or if it is all wishful thinking.
.
What I do know is someone somewhere needs a bomb up their a**e to get something done with this eyesore.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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The whole of that site will be housing no decent company will deal with this council thats why asda is going into netto, this council dose not want this town to prosper because it would mean two much work for them, and work is not what this council wants, I have live in one of there houses for over 20 years and there maintenance of there stock is diabolical I am now having to go to court to get my windows replaced because they say they have no pennies to maintain the houses. I would give my right arm and leg to leave this town I was born in but you cant do that now unless you bid but they are quick to give to bloody people from other countries who have given nothing to this town and don't say you don't because you are paying for them to live in private houses a over £600 a month on this estate this town is ruined Thanks DDC.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the old m.f.i./lidls site was certainly tidied up nicely when i went past this morning.
as you can see from the picture the building that housed an osteopath and the white cliffs countryside project is no more.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
And do you know Brian and Jan I have my Mr Grumpy tea shirt on to day
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
It really has nothing to do with secrets at all, but I can assure you there is no delay due to DDC or the Planning Officers there.
The developers are are in control, they are in discussions with businesses to come here; they are drawing up new plans with the planning officers and a subission should be in place in a few months.
While this is going on CPOs are being processed - this is a big delay, so if you want someone to blame, blame these landowners who won't/don't want to sell, not DDC.
DDC have no control over how the developers go about their business; they have designed, created and built many good quality Town Centres around the country and will build us a good one too - a good one, rather than a quick one.
I still say that this particlar DTIZ plan started in 2002 (yes I know there have been others in the past, but this is the one on the table) making it almost 10 years and most of the delay has been land-ownership issues.
Dave - we'll all find out soon enough.
Roger
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
Roger
Thank you for such a clear explanation, so we can blame the uncooperative landowners who are holding the whole development to ransom.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Sue,
"What I can say is that since 1978 DDC have managed to assemble the land so that eventually the building work can commence ,The old MFI site has been the latest development"
What year was the MFI building constructed?
I'm glad the Asda proposal fell through...it was rubbish! The problem is that we were told that it was good and that it was the only offer. I will wait to pass judgement on the next one but bet it will not address any of the problems it could possibly solve.
It is easy to say that this is not the resposibilty of DDC but of the planners, this simply isn't the case. The developers are wanting to make money, not improve the town, which was the inherent problem with the Asda plan. This site is potentially pivotal in regenerating the town as it is the obvious point at which the town could reconnect with the sea front.
I can never understand why the council has not run a competition to try and establish a vision for the DTIZ site, rather than let developers present them with 'one size fits all' answers. This is the failing of the council, not their ability to process mundane applications that are conceived through 'development' and not through 'regeneration'.
There has never been a master plan, only plans and this is the problem. I know people work hard and that their intentions are good, but why not look at how other councils approach it. Will Alsop's design for Barnsley springs to mind, which won't be fully realised but certainly is 'a vision' and not just desperation.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,983
Dave ,
I can assure the latest designs are very good .Roger is correct you have to go through the lenghty CPO if landowners hold out for what they think is a reasonabe sum of money .CPOs take time .
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Roger, if the current plan began in 2002 does that mean DDC is still working around an Asda plan even without Asda? In some ways you can see the point of the landowners, why sell when there is no progress and the plans could change in the future to something they may wish to be a part of.
Another question has to be, how much do they change? DTIZ still based around a supermarket despite many recent reports showing that such town centre developments are actually damaging to the towns? Daydreams of a cable car that nobody wants and most sensible people realise would be unworkable most of the year.
[URL][/URL]
At the moment money is tight and yet rather than looking at ways to move Dover forward and encouraging some smaller developments that could build up towards a viable whole DDC is still working to the old master plan long promoted by the now gone, and unlamented, Dover Pride.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,658
With the greatest respect Sue, what you consider to be very good designs might not be seen in the same way by the majority of the Dover population, we will not know until we see them.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,983
There has been more consideration given to Townwall Street .We have a planning Committee who are trained and will look at the design issuies very carefully .
Guest 662- Registered: 18 Mar 2008
- Posts: 325
Welcome to Dover Forum David!!
. Dont let your little storm put you off posting, we get a bit lively on here from time to time as you can see.
How's the new magazine coming along? It was Cinque Ports Life I believe.
Are you going to the networking event at Dover Transport Museum on Wednesday? If so will see you there, with my CMS hat on.
Talk soon,
Michelle
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
I rather liked David Hannent's idea of treating the DTIZ as a legoland and building bit by bit on a small scale affordable to locals and entrepreneurs, creating a network of streets akin to the picturesque conservation area in Deal.
DDC planners appear to be afflicted by giganticism, painstakingly assembling a jigsaw of land until they have sufficient demolition wasteland to throw up more giant buildings to replace the unwanted giant structures erected by the planners of yesteryear.
The Master Plans remind me irresistibly of the dreams of Speer and Hitler for building a new Berlin. The photo below is of the Volkshall which would have formed the centrepiece with its 700 foot dome. Could DDC not just obtain the plans for this and build it on the DTIZ - it would be particularly popular with our German cruise ship passengers.
It could be named the Temple of Consumerism and would be of great interest to another of our supermarket chains. People would come from far and wide to do their weekly shop in such an imposing edifice and it would form a lasting testimony to the wisdom of our planners.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
Ed, I'm sure many of us oldies remember we used to have that network of small streets off the Market Square, it got knocked down to build the York St dual carriageway.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Ed
David Hannents idea was master planning, setting a frame work which could develope and evolve. This is my point.
As for Speer, shame about the whole Nazi thing, he was quite an Architect!
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Sue, I'd have to agree with Jan, good is a little different for everyone. For example you quote from the Daily Mail and probably think it's a 'good' paper.
It seems to me that planners are generally more impressed by good planning applications rather than good plans....you know the ones with pretty perspectives with kids holding balloons.