Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
"All the entrepreneurs you refer to would love their small businesses to be huge successes, tomorrow's Microsoft and become 'super-rich'."
This is hilarious!
Barry, the vast majority of business people do not aspire to become duper-rich. You are now reduced to placing words in their mouth while acting as their representative on the Forum!
You mention Microsoft and Apple.
I'm talking of private assets, not company assets. You keep implying that I advocate the confiscating of company assets. I never have! I'm talking of the private assets of the extremely rich who have no skills at all other than hoarding the Country's wealth.
Furthermore, I'm talking of Britain, and Microsoft and Apple are not British firms.
Seeing that you mention Microsoft, Bill Gates, the founder of Microsoft, an American firm, has said many years ago that his sons will NOT inherit his private wealth, but MUST achieve their own success!
He also said that the super rich must pay more tax, so I suggest you do your homework before placing words in the mouth of people who (like Bill Gates) actually do have entrepreneurial skills. In fact, what THESE people say, is utterly the opposite to what you proclaim on their behalf!
You can carry on saying that I preach theft and what I write is bonkers, but you are increasingly on your own on this topic.
Furthermore, your maths need revising:
if every business person became equal in wealth to Bill Gates and to the owner of Apple, as you CLAIM they want to, then all the money in the world, including shares, bonds, hedge-funds and the whole gobbledegook, would need to be increased by tens of thousands of times to satisfy this demand!
So you are preaching pure fantasy here, something that is totally impossible! Quite clearly, with that statement, you demonstrate to have no understanding at all in economy!
]
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
As usual Alexander you seem to be conflating a number of conflicting positions into one
All business people wish for their businesses to be successful and to grow, through this success and growth they are able to reward themselves for the risk they took at the start by paying themselves a wage and perhaps dividends and also to provide gainful employment for others. Of course sometimes those wishes remain unfulfilled and business fails, for most their markets mature and business growth hits a plateau but does very nicely and very occasionaly another Microsoft or Apple is born. The aspiration to be in that last category is not often met but is still what drives most businesses forward.
Yes Bill Gates has provided his children with the best education that can be bought in the US and it is true that he has put the vast majority of his wealth into his and his wife's charitable foundation and it is also true that his children will not inherit that wealth - quite what any of that has to do with Barry's arguments is beyond me. You also correctly state that he believes the "super rich" should pay more tax - what you ignore is he is talking about the USA where these people pay less tax than their maids do.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Well said Ross.
Why we have to bother to explain the facts of life I really do not know.
Flights of fantasy dressed up as a way to run a country.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
So Barry if you where the PM, can you give us a breakdown of the cuts necessary to balance the books.
And a tax system you think will bring growth. And be acceptable to the people you need to vote for you.
I think At the next election the labour party, is going to hit your party hard with the tax reductions you gave the rich, its going to bee on all there, proper gander leaflets.
Do you think a reduction on VAT would have been a more helpful Tax cut for growth?
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Ross, I doubt a local baker running a family business, perhaps employing someone too, aspires at earning 100 million pounds in private wealth.
Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of businesses have gone bankrupt over the past few years in Britain and Europe alone, or America?
How many business owners live of, say, 10.000 pounds a year when all expenses are paid?
It seems clear to me that only very few people are claiming that all business owners would like to become as rich as Bill Gates. The majority of us do not believe they want to.
I run a business, and do not aspire at becoming a millionaire, let alone a billionaire.
The fact is, that modern capitalism has made it impossible for so many small businesses to survive. One reason being, that masses of wealth is channeled off into private accounts, to an extent that many people count the pennies, go into debt, and cannot afford to purchase even essential items.
What more and more people are saying, is that we have reached rock bottom, this cannot go on any longer. Too many people are financially bankrupt, on a private scale, and the State is bankrupt, and many other countries are bankrupt, each with their masses of bankrupt citizens too.
And amid all this, there are individuals who have hoarded so many assets in their own name, that they couldn't even sit down and count their money if it were all piled up in front of them. And they continue amassing more wealth on a daily basis.
This can't go on, full stop! The Economy is supposed to be to every individual's benefit, not gobbled up by a very small minority of people who count their millions in the same fashion as a normal person counts his tenners at the end of the month (if he has any money left at all to count!)
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Ah there you go, putting words in others mouths again - you really must try harder to actually respond to the words as written rather than what you choose to read/decide has been written
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,920
the rich get richer
the poor get poorer
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
So, Ross, you were not referring to all businesses then, but only to some!
I chose to read your reference as being to all people who open and run a business.
Seems I got it wrong then!
Many of us don't get a chance to expand our business.
So who are the elected few you were referring to, seeing that I am not included among them?
A bit like someone walking past me in the street, and saying to his dog: "hallo".
I answer (thinking he meant me): "hallo there"
The reply: "I wasn't talking to you"!
(This actually happened tonight while I was out)
I have to try harder to understand that when you are talking about businesses, you definitely are not referring to me too. And I must understand that when Barry explains things to us, if I do not agree, I don't understand anything about economy, and my ideas are bonkers.
So if I don't agree even then, what then?
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
do we really care who is getting richer or not,it looks like a case of green eyed monster raising its head because they are not getting richer themselfs.it dose my head in when i hear about it.,
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Ah Brian! Most people, one would assume, don't have plans of getting rich, or richer, but simply would like to have a normal income.
And many business owners would be happy if they managed to get a decent income out of their occupation. How many shop-owners in Dover have closed down because their business simply wasn't bringing them sufficient revenue?
But the whole thread went off a tangent, because people striving for a decent income (in our Dovorian reckoning) have been compared to the super-rich with their ...hundreds of millions.
The fact is, many of us people are well below the poverty line.
"All the entrepreneurs you refer to would love their small businesses to be huge successes, tomorrow's Microsoft and become 'super-rich'."
Is this a slogan to attract customers?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,920
brian;
yes i do have concerns about who gets richer when it is at the expense of the poor getting poorer
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Alex - you speak as if there is something wrong with aspiration and ambition. There is nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with wanting to be rich. Your definition of what you think most people want is plainly wrong. At the most simple level define a 'decent income' - you cannot and it would mean something different to everyone.
I earn what I earn and work hard for it and I would like more. A decent income? For me it is anything more than I get now, maybe £100k a year but I would love to double, triple that and I certainly would not turn down millions.... or even billions.... Anyone who says they would are liars.
At the end of the day we need successful businesses that go on to become big or 'mega' businesses and in so doing make their owners very rich, super rich. That ties up with human progress and is inbuilt in human nature.
There is nothing at all wrong in people getting rich and richer. Good luck to anyone who does.
I do not like the idea of the poor getting poorer but it is up to them to adopt a lifestyle and work ethic that enables themselves to do better. We as a society can and should provide a short term safety net and help people who fall on hard times get back on their feet and we can provide some basic needs for those who are long term sick or disabled and the elderly. Ultimately though we cannot save people from themselves and if they adopt lifestyle that condemns them to poverty then it is up to them to sort themselves out. One of our problems now is that society provides too much to a degree that benefits are a career choice for the lousy and lazy.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,920
barryw;
let me again agree in part on the benefits system which needs updating yep everyone agrees there.
how it is done is the problem, people struggle some all there ,life and dont get life chances.
the divide is something that needs addressing
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Sometime you have to be hard on people and say no to benefit them. After all, do we not take the sweets away from children when they eat too many? It is for their own good but this issue, of course, is much more important than children's sweets - that makes it even more important to be cruel in order to be kind.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
I remember sitting in Marylebone Magistrates Court many years ago, long before Ken Clark put so many things right, witnessing a case of two young drug-addics up for prostitution - they pleaded guilty and were handed a stiff fine.
I often wonder where that Magistrate thought the money was to come from. Perhaps he was being kind?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
District Councils are past their sell by date.........
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
we will know later today which services will be cut in order to save this vast amount of money.
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2012/september/6/kent_county_council_faces_cuts.aspxKeith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,920
cuts cuts cuts
be kind to the poor by cutting even more
whilst the rich remain hardly affected
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith. if people want to get out of poverty and no longer wish to be classed as poor then they have to do it themselves through lifestyle and the work ethic. You will not 'save' them by just giving them loads of dosh. That has been tried and it has failed. The day that we hear people on the Kyle show complaining that they cannot afford to fund their drug habit from benefits then we might be winning on the issue.