Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,261
#41
The Ehic issue is a complete misnomer as well, all the treatments under the system are reclaimed from the persons country of origin (accepting the recent news that our nhs is under claiming) why would that system change it would only serve to penalise all European citizens.
Gibraltar would and did flourish outside of the EU and it's residents are big advocates of the leave campaign, very disingenuous to suggest 'life will change beyond all recognition' change will be barely noticeable.
Arte et Marte
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,300
#42
You are right, a State (as opposed to occupational) pension is paid by the country where the majority of your pension contribution has been paid in.
However, healthcare is provided via reciprocal arrangements deriving from that state pension payment. So, for a UK State pensioner in France, healthcare is provided because the citizen completes what is called an "S1" form. In short, that form reads "Dear UK, do you accept responsibility for this person?" The UK replies, "Yes, we do, please provide healthcare to them and we will cover the bill". That process simply would not happen if we were not part of the EU and EU Coordination Regulations; the pensioner would have to fund their own healthcare (regardless of ability to pay - you take the point).
Spain is entirely different. There is a real problem and I kid you not, the Spanish press receives lots of letters to the editor along the line of "All of these Brits, coming here, using our public services.." in just the same was as we tend to do with Eastern Europeans. Only five years ago the Valencia authorities become so overwhelmed with Brits accessing their health system that they had to appeal to central Government for help. The point I make here is simply that EU membership is a two way street and we only ever get to hear about the single direction of travel.
Apologies if this is fairly boring! All I am really trying to do is to add, where I can, factual accuracy to the debate. It dismays me that we are being asked to take such a fundamentally profound decision based on such little and at times, entirely inaccurate information.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,300
#43
To Reg, that is entirely the point. It doesn't matter what the process is, the important point is that there is one. If we were not members of the EU, then ergo, we are not subject to Regulation 883/04 (Social Security Coordination) and thus, the EHIC no longer applies to UK citizens. This is fact.
We can't just continue as before, because we want to pick and choose the good bits from the bad. If it were as simple as that, they would all be at it!
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,261
#44
Neil I understand that the current system would be no more, but why would any Eu country not want to provide the same system that works and is well established for its citizens, if the vote is out it will be a protracted withdrawal through negotiation, many of the current regulations will remain in all but name, there will be no calamitous overnight locking of doors and borders to Britain's. Agreed the retired expat. Population in spain will require a different agreement but I think we would agree to continue funding the care, simply because if they were in cold and wet Britain their healthcare cost would be greatly hugely inflated.
Arte et Marte
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,300
#45
Reg, you are right - but all of this would need the agreement and support of all other member states. For example, the agreement which extends the social security arrangements to Switzerland took ages to ratify. There is a separate arrangement with the EFTA countries. In every corner of every person's life, there will need to be a new agreement reached to carry on as before. It sounds like we agree on that point.
So, the next time 150 Business leaders, or scientists, or whoever else write letters to the press expressing views this way and that, it should not be forgotten that as individuals, we will all be impacted.
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,261
#46
It will certainly require an increase in pencil pushing jobs to get it all sorted.
I am still undecided on the vote but the more Cameron uses the scaremongering that he has been the more towards out I veer, like yourself I want to hear some facts instead of the lies we are being fed and then I shall tick the box and bail out to Canada until the dust settles!
Arte et Marte
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,300
#47
Returning to Howard's point in #40, the Government has accepted that "Purdah" arrangements will apply to the Referendum. This will kick in 28 days before the vote. So from on or around 27th May henceforth, the Government, or at least Ministers, when wearing their Governmental hats, could not make any public announcements that could be seen to impact the result of the Referendum, one way or the other.
Up until that time, it stands to reason that they can do whatever they like with whatever resources they like - which of course will be campaigning for a "Yes" vote.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#48
If i can stick my two pennorth in on this one, most Spanish hospitals have been charging foreign patients(without full health insurance) for a few years since their economy shuddered to a halt.can't blame if they can hardly treat their own people. My understanding is that with or without the EHIC card the French still charge - very low and qood quality service I hasten to add.
A few things going the rounds are that overseas mobile roaming charges will rise - WOW and that air fares will rise despite the Pro EU head of RyanAir saying that it would be highly unlikely.
Another thing is that there would be the need for visas for European Travel, they weren't before except for Eastern bloc countries. Hopefully full facts will emerge but I don't see the single market changing from our point of view either in or out.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,300
#49
Howard, you are quite right. The EHIC entitles the holder to healthcare on the same basis as would be applied to local residents, so if they pay, so do you. It does not afford free healthcare (other than for NHS type systems). In the case of France, they typically pay around 20-30% co payment. Without the EHIC, you would pay 100% as a non resident.
Spain were involved in shoddy practice for a number of years whereby they insisted on health insurance, rather than the EHIC - refusing it in a huge number of cases. The rationale was that they would charge the patient as they got the money upfront - and sold it to the patient as not making any difference. Of course, it did, as the patient would at best have to pay an excess and at worse, have the entire claim rejected - as is the want of insurance companies. The European Commission put a stop to this and threatened to take Spain to court.
The one to watch will be the land border between North and South Ireland - extremely interesting how that plays out.
Guest 1458- Registered: 16 Jan 2015
- Posts: 33
#50
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
#51
I've little time for UKIP but here's Farage telling it how it is to Mother Merkel, Kermit and others:-
"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#52
sounds like Donald trump,i suppose he wants to build a large wall the lenth of the chanel and get the French to pay for it.
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
#53
Brian, I don't want to sit on the fence and especially your wall on this one.The UK recently paid up to £20 Million to France for new fences near the Channel Tunnel. The Channel Tunnel is partly owned by the French Government.
I understand the new Buckland 'Hospital' cost £20 Million
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#54
if it works for trump it could work farage peter.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#55
peter as aside that's not a hospital its a polyclinic/health center.
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
#56
Brian..Read post #53 again. See those little black marks above the word hospital. Farage is nothing like Trump, for a start, Farage is not a billionaire yet.
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,261
#57
That's true Trump has actually won something!
Arte et Marte
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#58
peter,you will find a ward with beds in it,so not a proper hospital/
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hospitalGuest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
#59
Reginald, you seem to be a bright guy with a subtle gentle humour. So you must know, that Farage has been Member of the European Parliament since 10th June 1999 for this area,the South East.
Brian, I give up. It is a £20million polyclinic/health centre..Happy now.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#60
yep,be estatic when our mp admits it to