Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Well GaryC - if the last government had not driven the economy into the ground with excessive borrowing and spending then we would be in a different position now.
But back to the actual quote.
The real absurdity was the Brown idea that child poverty is measured only in money. That if you had perhaps £1 less a year you would be in poverty or £1 more not in poverty.
Real child poverty is about more than money. It is about abuse, neglect, drugs, a lack of a father figure and so on. To measure it purely in financial terms is absurd, how money is spent and lifestyles are relevant here as well.
The idiotic aside at the bottom also demonstrates the lack of any kind of intelligent thought from the 'left'. If you want to increase the amount of tax the rich pay then the tax rates need to be reduce to under 40p. Increasing rates reduces the tax-take. You can therefore blame Brown's last minute political tax hike to 50p for some of the cuts and the coalitions cowardice in not reducing it.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
With so much else 'measured in money', why then not poverty?
It can hardly be true that, "abuse, neglect, drugs, a lack of a father figure and so on" are measures of child poverty. It all sounds more like poverty is beyond the scope of Government and Politics. As it is with growth.
Why is it that in the area of a privatised NHS the companies, so needed and so adept, and yet so 'of the minute, ad-hoc and new made to fit the circumstances, that these same masters of expertise, efficiency and finance should operate free of tax?
Maybe what the poor child of today lacks are bomb sites and food queues...so half way there then.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Barry, you committed the schoolboy error of confusing poverty with relative poverty, the latest buzzword for the handwringers.
Using their criteria kids in Monte Carlo will live in relative poverty because they're not as well off as others.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Monte Carlo " was notorious as the poorest county in the poorest state in the country even before 1985, when Jesse Jackson declared that he had found "America's Ethiopia" there. Life for Tunica's black majority started out hard and got no easier, as statistics from the 1980s testify. The county recorded America's eighth highest infant-mortality rate, the fourth highest percentage of births to teenage mothers, the highest percentage of people living below the poverty line, and the lowest median household income. In 1984, 70 percent of residents over the age of twenty-five had no high school diploma. Nearly a quarter of the houses lacked modern plumbing. The filthy tin-and-wood shacks that disgusted Jackson rotted along "Sugar Ditch" Alley, named for the open sewer that ran through it. Such infamy inspired a few federal housing projects, but in 1992 the county was still a symbol of rural poverty. Tunica's unemployment levels wera among the highast in Mississippi, and many of those who had jobs did not make enough money to get off welfare. That year more than half the county relied on food stamps..."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1996/01/monte-carlo-mississippi/306245/Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
See what I mean about relative poverty Tom?
Those folk in Monte Carlo would kill for the poverty in UK
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
...but not the weather.
[Many thanks
]
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
What a monotonous load of drivel, surely even you must be getting fed up with spewing out the same old tosh. I am not going to say you are right about Brown, I've said that too many times before and your intelligence lets you down yet again, by stating I want to increase the amount of tax the rich pay.
I simply would like them to pay Some Tax
What the article referred to and what you neatly swerved and avoided with your usual panache , was that whilst Cameron is stating we are all in it together, cutting child benefit at the same time as giving Tax Relief to the rich, does not add up to being all in it together.
Well to you it probably does but to the millions of others that it effects, then they would disagree.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
So, back to personal insults then - what excuse are you going to make this time? You demonstrate ignorance in every sense of the word.
Ignorant in being unable to undertake a civilised discussion.
Ignorant of the actual facts of which you speak.
Some facts for you. I can actually provide links because what I am saying is evidential based, not from a bigoted view based on ignorance. But then you are not interested in facts are you.
The top 1% of earners (over £150k pa) contributed almost a third of the total income tax collected by HMRC
http://www.contractoruk.com/news/0010796tax_burden_high_earners_helps_make_uk_uncompetitive.html
HMRC Report showing the damage done to tax collection by high tax rates
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2012/excheq-income-tax-2042.pdf
UK high earners have one of the highest tax burdens in the world
http://www.uhy-uk.com/resources/news/uk-tax-burden-on-high-earners-one-of-the-heaviest-in-the-world/
There is a mass of evidence in the UK and abroad that shows lower tax rates collect higher taxes from the rich.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 2087..Agree..
# 2081...# 2083...# 2085...If you traveled and had knowledge of the deprivation areas in East Kent,even in the affluent wards
you would not be making such statements.....and it is getting worse for those families.....
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Depends on your definition of poverty Reg, I dont see people starving to death.
In every society everywhere there are people better off than others, there are hundreds of millions of people that would love to live in the poverty you refer to.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
Fact- there was no personal insult in my post, I refered to you churning out the same Brown effect everytime, thats an observation not an insult.
Fact, calling me ignorant is a personal insult.
I don't doubt your facts and figures but they have nothing to do with my post, with link.
"Cameron is stating we are all in it together, cutting child benefit at the same time as giving Tax Relief to the rich, does not add up to being all in it together"
The act of "cutting child benefit" and " giving Tax Relief to the rich" at the same time.
Does not equal "We are all in it together"
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
You want dead bodies ?
Poverty is relative ....in many parts of the world children are starving to death every ten seconds....in our country the food
banks are increasing....the poverty I refer to you have obviously not seen but the information is in the public domain .....
it is no excuse to be in denial.......
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
-"The top 1% of earners..." So what? By all means let's tax them less and 'pay' them less, and pay more people more.
-"HMRC Report showing the damage..." All about the 10% as opposed to the 3-5% elsewhere, it is now 5% anyway.
-"UK high earners have one of the ..." "Out of 26 countries analysed, the UK has the 9th highest tax burden on those earning $200,000 (roughly £125,000) and $250,000 (£160,000) per year, and the 6th highest for those earning $1,500,000 (£950,000) per year". And yet there is this...
"Cross-country comparisons of income tax are complicated as different countries will have
different local rates, allowances and social contributions. The effective tax rate for a given income
level will depend on all of these factors."
If perhaps more attention were paid to the unearned income and the complexity of the whole business tax rates could be lowered.
But, in the meantime IF the few wish to leave then let them go. Many a 'bongo-bongo' land would be happy to have them.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - personal this certainly was from you: 'What a monotonous load of drivel, surely even you must be getting fed up with spewing out the same old tosh.' and 'I've said that too many times before and your intelligence lets you down yet again'.
If either of us lacks intelligence then it is certainly you - if you can hand out such insults then so can I. Ignorant, yes you certainly are based on the evidence you provide in your posts.
Catch up with what is needed. Cuts have to be made, full stop. To deal with the economy and get that deficit down then the largest budget needs to be cut, that is welfare. High tax rates on the wealthy reduce the tax take and result in more cuts having to be made. The Welfare and benefit budget should never have been raised to the unaffordable level it is at now and whatever you say is was Brown who did that.
It is easy whinging about what has to be cut but that does not stop it needing to be done.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
come on chaps let's concentrate on the issues and not personalities please.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
David.
That is the point, people will die this winter through poverty and that could and should be prevented.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Howard
it does become difficult when you get people from both ends of the debate.
Garyc for me has suffered/is suffering the present cuts, and has the information first hand
And it must be of frustration to him and lots like him when there hear of millions of pounds golden handshakes even for people who fail(royal bank of scotland)
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Howard.
Don't worry, BarryW's insults have no substance anymore for me, water of ducks back as they say
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Well said garyc
dont let him get to you
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Keith.
I don't have a problem with the rich, they only get parnoid about making more, hiding it or who's trying to take it from them.
I'm much happier living in the real world.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
